Ted Lasso S2E3: We're A Team Ain't We?

Marisa  

Welcome back to the dog track greyhounds. This is Richmond Til We Die, an episode by episode conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted Lasso, where we explore the characters' relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and then feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. For this episode. Our conversation is all about season two, episode three titled do the rightest it was written by Ashley Nicole Black, directed by Ezra Edelman and edited by Melissa McCoy and Francesca Castro. I am Marissa. I'm here for all the laughs and giggles in fungi.

Christian  

I'm Christian and that's the double truth Ruth.

Brett   

I'm Brett and Elvis Presley was a hero to most but he never openly accused a national government of corruption. So speaking of Christian, I noticed that you do not have tape across the sponsor, or lack of sponsor on your jersey. So why don't you tell us the story about the kit you're wearing today.

Christian  

I've got my long sleeve because I do have a long sleeve and short sleeve in the closet. My long sleeve Ethiopian national team jersey from 2013. One of our daughters is Ethiopian. So I got this on one of our trips to the country. And it's from the African Cup of Nations in 2013, which is a tournament that's played where all of the countries in Africa like play, essentially a Mini World Cup against each other and all the continents do this. They have different names in North and Central America. It's called the Gold Cup in South America. It's called Copa America, not Copacabana. No, not couple of Cabana, you could suggest that they change it though.

Marisa  

That'd be fun. They were already have a song built.

Christian  

In Europe, it's called the Euros. And in this particular iteration of the tournament, Ethiopia did not do well because unfortunately, they typically do not do well in soccer tournaments. But they were in a group with Nigeria. Nigeria did end up second in that group and Nigeria won the tournament that year. So we do have a bit of a Nigerian tie in to today's Jersey in a roundabout way.

Brett   

That's a really good catch. And like, I appreciate that you brought that in Christian always thinking

Christian  

usually sometimes thinking

Brett   

most of the time on occasion. Alright, Marissa, are you ready to remind the listeners what happened in this episode?

Marisa  

The episode starts with some young lady we don't know sitting at Rebecca's desk. We come to find out it's her god daughter Nora. She's staying with Rebecca for the weekend while her mom sassy is on a work trip.

Brett   

Nora's visit gets off to a bumpy start as Rebecca is stuck in little Nora mode. And she doesn't know what to do with an adolescent. But she and Nora bump into Roy and Phoebe which gives her Becca yet another chance to receive sage like wisdom from the former team captain

Christian  

Keeley, who is very good at her job. Land salmon endorsement deal with Richmond kids sponsor Dubai air, which proves to be a problem because Dubai airs parent company serving the oil is harming the environment and people in Sam's home country of Nigeria by polluting the coastline with their drilling practices. When Sam's dad finds out about the endorsement deal, he expresses his displeasure to Sam, which Sam finds crushing.

Marisa  

Sam gets out of his endorsement deal with Dubai air but it's kind of a whole big thing. The owner of the parent company and want to Rupert's little boys want Sam jettison from AFC Richmond, which would make financial sense for the struggling club but isn't something anyone really wants to do.

Brett   

Meanwhile, Jamie's returned to the team has made things tense in an effort to get some of the heat off of Jamie Ted releases the Kraken known as lead Tasso a scowling, irrational bullying Alter Ego. Jamie stands up to him gets the team out of practice and gets a foot back in the door of his teammates good graces.

Christian  

Even though he gave up his Dubai air endorsement deal, Sam is still bothered by how harmful certain theme oil is to Nigeria as a silent protest. He tapes over the logo on his chest, his Nigerian teammates join in. And then Jamie does as well, leading to the team taking a unified standard with Sam. After the match, Sam has an opportunity to explain himself to a room of riled up press members and to the world. And that's all the recap we're going to give you.

Brett   

That was an excellent recap, y'all. But before we get into the main part of our conversation for this episode, what were some of the odds and ends a little things you noticed or just wanted to bring up before we jumped into all that,

Christian  

I want to shout out Ashley Nicole black, the writer for this episode, I love the title, do the rightest thing. I love that this episode won an environmental Media Award for Best episodic comedy, and obviously not as well known as the Emmys or the Golden Globes, but the environmental Media Awards are a really big deal. And it is a star studded event. And so it was cool to win something, an award for something that was socially conscious. And it was just nice to see this episode, in some ways, to me, like surprisingly, come to fruition. Because when Ashley Nicole Black was added to the writers room, like we did have some hope that you know, there would be some centering of like the non white characters. And we got that like in a really big way in this season. And I feel like it did start with this episode. And so it's just nice to see that that thing that we wanted, and we're looking forward to did happen.

Brett   

Yeah, I just learned that the environmental Media Awards were a thing. And so you're saying they're kind of like a big deal to?

Christian  

Yes, the award show was hosted by Jeff Goldbloom. And I just don't know how much bigger it can get than that.

Brett   

Yeah, I mean, you You've proved your point.

Marisa  

Yeah. It's like Jurassic.

Christian  

Huge. What did you guys think of this episode immediately after you watched it?

Marisa  

I felt some warm fuzzies like I felt a tear come to my eye. You know, it's like, the first time we watched it. It definitely like healed a lot of the wounds that I had from episode one and two. And then after upon rewatch, I just, I really felt excited for Jamie excited for the team excited to see Sam's character, getting a lot more love and attention already this season. So yeah, I love this episode. It's one of my favorites.

Christian  

We've mentioned some of the ways in which it's tough when you don't get previews for these episodes, like sometimes they can take a turn that you don't expect in the episodes become very what feels like not traditional title, so and fans have a hard time adjusting to that. This is one where it was a pleasant surprise, because if you had seen a preview for this episode, then you would probably have a guess like that some of these things were gonna happen. And for it to come out of the blue was one of those situations where you could then just sit back and think like, Man, that was a really great surprise. And I don't get to ever, like recapture that when I watch this episode again. But for that one time, it was awesome.

Marisa  

You know, we meet Nora and she has, you know, she seems like a very Ted character, you know, and especially the way that she once Rebecca is willing to kind of treat her as an adolescent right and bring her in. I think it's really fun to see how she helps to steer the rightest thing in this episode.

Brett   

Speaking of steering, I was reminded, as you're talking about the episode of how in a previous episode on the season, we talked about how ships were starting to drift out to sea, or it felt like that. It felt like in this episode, some ships made their way closer to the dock. Like Sam, we felt very sad and confused for Sam after Jamie returned, right. And we were also feeling Jamie's lack of place on the team even before this episode, which makes it even more pronounced. But you know, knowing that he had him coming back would be more difficult than he thought it was or thought it would be. That was one of the things that stuck out to me in this episode was just that it felt more like it got more centered, and it was going to allow us to go new places with the season. All of those things really made me feel happy at the end of this episode and feel like okay, I was centered and ready to go the next thing and I I agree that Nora has big Ted lasso energy, I love their very first interaction. It's really funny. And just like they totally have a report after like 30 seconds.

Christian  

I live with an adolescent girl and a teenage girl. And there are certainly aspects of that stage of parenting that are difficult, but there are also very fun aspects of that stage of parenting, like as your kids kind of get to the place where they can enjoy some of the things that you enjoy, and their humor starts to align with your humor a bit. And they did a good job of capturing that age and the fun parts about that age while at the same time like alluding to some of the aspects of it that can be challenging.

Marisa  

An errant cobblestone away from your first period.

Brett   

Which is like a great turn of phrase that I hope more people adopt. Yes,

Christian  

I like that one of the things I loved about that phrase, that turn of phrase and also about some of Ted's other interactions is that it really put him much more solidly in a feminine space than we're used to seeing because the soccer team is just kind of a dude fest. And while they talk about in the writing of the conceptualization of the show, it focuses on the divine feminine and focus on focuses on giving men some space and some emotional vulnerability and different characteristics that we usually think of women having, it was still good to see Ted outside of his comfort zone a little bit, and just having to kind of eventually like bail on it and realize, my money's no good here.

Brett   

And to see his cheeks get a little flush, when sassy was talking about their sexual encounter in the previous season in front of Rebecca. That part always makes me laugh really hard.

Christian  

With all those surprises and meeting new people, one thing that wasn't super surprising, because we saw in the previews was the introduction of lead, Tasso. And I was pumped about this, because it goes all the way back to an SNL weekend update that Jason Sudeikis did, where he played Bobby Knight, the very volatile, former University of Indiana and Texas Tech basketball coach. And that was kind of the vibe that NBC Sports wanted to have Ted lasso be. And he took a lot of that edge off and made it softer, and then even soften it more when he brought it to Apple. But just as a creative person, it was really cool to see him sit on an idea that was a good idea until he could execute it in the way that he wanted to do that. Because that is one of the hardest things to do is to know in your heart, like, Okay, I have this good idea. And I know kind of what to do with it. But now is not the right time. And so I'm going to like put it on the shelf or cut it and trust that eventually the opportunity comes around to use it. It was just a good reminder for me that like yes, it's okay for us to say no to our good ideas for a time. One of the upsides to Jason waiting to pull this out is he and his team got to put a lot of detail into lead Tasos. So there was the physical comedy, which was hilarious. But then little things like giving led Tasso black sunglasses instead of the typical like rosy orange colored sunglasses that Ted lasso has. And then also, I think probably just the space for Jason to get into that character. He has a quote, that he said, like after all of this hair that to try to play that type of aggro anger without swearing. It's just a fun little mental gymnastics, one has to do. And the actors have talked about how he did like 20 takes on this and lost his voice because he was so into it, and wanted it to be a very specific thing. And one had to be so perfect. And so that level of dedication is impressive for what is really kind of a bit that has some utilitarian use.

Brett   

I definitely feel like the scene that happens right after he sent all the players back into the locker room and said practices canceled and he's he and beard are talking to Dr. Sharon, I feel like you can kind of hear the hoarseness in his voice when he's talking about Charles Edgar cheeser. Timothy. I was just like, oh, man, his voice sounds like so tired. So it's yeah, that that was a but like all that yelling that he did was really funny. And like you said, the physical comedy. One of my favorite lines that lead Tasso says is one of the first ones where he says to start touching, start touching each other's toes. He says those are your feet fingers. And you see Danny Rojas give like a knowing nod because in Spanish toes are they those those pa switches like literally fingers of the feet or fingers. So I thought that moment was a very small but very, a moment that I cherish.

Brett   

So speaking as we were about lead, Tasso, the reason that lead Tasso has to be brought into this space is because Ted and his team aren't really sure what they need to do. To help Jamie and his effort at reconciliation, Jamie has come back to the team. he reenters training in the previous episode at the very end of Episode Two. And then he's here and he, he starts to realize that winning back the respect and affection of these people who is in this locker room that he used to run basically is going to be a lot harder than he originally thought.

Marisa  

Jimmy is now the common enemy of all in the locker room, the locker room atmosphere has turned right we get to hear this even from the press about you know, how the atmosphere of the team is really a good one and inviting Jamie back. How will that change things and we get to see that really quickly that he's he's not welcome in on any of the jokes yet. It's like, too soon. Too soon. It's a good joke, though. Yeah. And he you can really clearly see that he's trying. And that's kind of the hard thing to deal with too, is like, you know, how long are we gonna have to deal with this as an audience and then quickly, we see that the the lead, Tasso is released, so that the team can have a common enemy. And I love how beard and Ted think that they're gonna be able to explain this to Dr. Sharon. She's like, clearly I got a boy.

Brett   

She gave them the rundown

Marisa  

textbook, like, I don't need your help here. I got this all figured out.

Christian  

The Jamie situation is fascinating, because he's trying so many things that are the appropriate things to try. He's just so bad at them. Like he tries to apologize to the team. And then he gets overrun by transgressions. I guess,

Brett   

just watching that as a leader of students. It's like always the fear of when a student I'm sure you relate to this tumor. Yeah, like when a student and YouTube Christian, like when a student comes up, and they're like, Can I say something? You're always like, Oh, we didn't What are you gonna say like? And so yes, that went predictably, horribly,

Christian  

predictably, horribly, he has this idea to buy the whole team PS fives, which seems as though it does come from an innocent place, but also a place of just misunderstanding, buying, affection,

Marisa  

buying, buying, what's there to spend money on?

Brett   

It did make me want to try getting an eyebrow threading so that maybe I too, could have some great ideas.

Marisa  

I think it can work for you.

Christian  

And then Jamie, this is one thing that doesn't work out for him. Readily embracing therapy. Partially because for egotistical,

Marisa  

self centered,

Brett   

He’s happy to get a chance to talk, you know, we know from season one that he's like, secretly psychologically very healthy. Yes. So that's why he's just able to slip right into therapy, because he's like, Yeah, of course, like, I can just talk about myself. And, you know, I just want to know what that conversation was. I feel so gypped that we don't get to hear like seeing interaction really between Dr. Sharon and Jamie besides their introduction.

Marisa  

Yes. I think you know, we get to see the the lead, Led Tasso physical comedy, but even even Jamie's just kind of like, half listening to Ted as they're out on the practice pitch and doing his little hip Swizzles and things like that, where it's just like, you know, again, it's like, reminds me of when I'm trying to get my children's attention. And like, are you listening to me? Uh huh. Yep. Got this. They walked away. I don't think they listened. No, they did not.

Brett   

It was again, going back to how hard Jamie is trying he takes all of that in stride of like, you're going to be second team, you have to get your way back onto first team. And so go get your penny you know, that's, you know, has you on like the second tier of players for practice. And he just walks right up to will the kit man is like, hit me Mr. Kit, man, you know, like he just takes it. And I was just struck by like, all the bad treatment of the hitman in season one who was Nate. And then just that little moment of like, wow, even this person he doesn't know like he's you know, already sort of like being inclusive and having this this fun and playful personality that we have seen Jamie can have now.

Christian  

There are a lot of he has a lot of missteps. He has a lot of things he's trying to do right. When we get to the end of the episode, he is the person that is kind of like the tipping point, I guess for team unity, which the door is open to that because of the whole lead tassel thing. But it raises two questions. One, you know, what do we think Dr. Sharon said to Jamie to get him to that place if that was part of her doing? And then also just how did you guys interpret that moment in regard to sincerity versus performative ally ship.

Marisa  

I think Jamie, at that point really wants to do something genuine. You know, I think that's why we get sort of these kind of ridiculous moments of trying to make things up to the team. And in that moment, I think we have to, we have to believe that it's honest and genuine, because otherwise, I think the whole moment falls flat. You know, I feel like, I need to believe that, like Jamie's doing it for the right reasons, because he wants to be part of a family. Right? All this is because of everyone's daddy issues. Right. So this is the one time where, like, Jamie's taking that first step to actually kind of equalize what he's done to the team before. This

Brett   

is tricky, though, you know, to do to sort of like be that person, because I think it does raise suspicions when it's like, you know, what's what, what is in it for you? Like, have I not have I not noticed, like, why you might be doing this? Is it transactional for you. And so while while it may still have been slightly performative, I think the performance was to try and show like, I want to like to do the right thing by you, like, I want to support you, Sam, and the other teammates, like, I want to, I think this is important, because it's important to you. And so you know, even if they want us to be a team, yeah, and that line is great. I mean, the were a teammate, we was, I think, the first time I cried this season, it was it was great, it's so good.

Christian  

I think performative ally ship probably would have been some version of Jamie, wanting to communicate to people that he really cared about the situation in Nigeria without being informed about it. And I don't know, like going out there and saying some ridiculous things at a press conference, like whatever. But what we get instead is like, you're saying him saying, I want to be a part of this team. And so then, that is like the thing that makes it work. As long as people can accept that? Well, I

Marisa  

think the the show does a good job of allowing Sam to be the one to speak to things right, because then it takes, you know, Ted completely out of that space, it takes Jamie any of those other players who, you know, it wasn't exactly their place to kind of make that stance or that, you know, start that movement, or whatever it was, it was like, Hey, here's Sam, in this position. Therefore, this is, you know, this is something we're supporting, rather than just a moment to kind of gain some sort of publicity. Right,

Brett   

right. And it I think it is a good example of that simple idea of listen and amplify, right? Like, Jamie is smart enough. We know Jamie is smart. I mean, Jamie is dumb. But Jamie is also smart. And so we know that he's smart enough to kind of realize like, Oh, this is this is something that's a big deal. Like he Jamie at least understands like covering up your main sponsor is a big deal, right. And if it's that big of a deal from someone like Sam, who I'm sure he knows, and like believes to be a good and like genuine person, like he, he's able to, like, understand how important that is. And so just to be able to say like, because it's important to you, I can join into this. And maybe even there's a little bit of Jamie knowing that, like, if this becomes more than just three players like it becomes a bigger deal. And then that can then allow someone who is informed about the situation to have more things to say about it, which is what ends up happening in this episode and the perfect world of Ted lasso, season two, episode three, that's what happens. And so you know, that's not because of Jamie. But like, that's because people on the team were willing to like sort of play the part and just be supporters. For folks who knew what they were talking about and knew what they were protesting against.

Christian  

We should point out that Sam didn't really have a great grasp on what was going on, and who the power players were at the beginning of this episode. That's something that he finds out from his dad, when he was having those interactions from his dad. Like, where did you guys think that was going? What were some of your feelings as you started to see those texts?

Marisa  

I realized for time sake, you know, they needed to happen pretty quickly, you know, this episode, but I was just like, dang, Dad years coming hot, like, you don't say, I was just here, working out on his bike all excited about, you know, like, you guys can come visit me for tickets, you know, and then it just, like, turn south so quickly. And it's, I mean, it's hard to kind of swallow because, well, one as like a parent, you know, you you care about kind of everything that your child is involved in, you know, but, you know, someone like Sam, who's an adult, and like, still cares about, like, what his parents think, you know, like, clearly again, this is kind of one of the the different relationships that we get to see with someone and how they relate to their family and their parents especially. But, you know, Sam hears that and like, that has to be really hard for Sam to like, go into Rebecca's office and like DAX thing, right? It's like all that fear, all that money, all the I mean, everything's tied up and that's just That's a scary move to make.

Brett   

And Sam definitely is smart enough to know all that and so he knows that like he he recognizes Keeley and says, like, I know you worked really hard on this, like, he's not just he's not doing it out of like complete selfishness either just be like, I need to get out of this. Like, he understands, like, there's so many moving pieces, but he doesn't want to be a cog in this machine that's gonna continue to destroy the place that he comes from. And I think getting back to your other thing about it happening so quickly. Like when you're watching the episode, it's so crushing, right? Because he's like, the music has you kind of is very sentimental, you know, and he's just like, oh, like, look at you know, Dad look like, I'm gonna be like a major sponsorship, ad deal type thing, like, this is cool, and it is cool. But then like to see, you know, to know, like how personal it says Father and then becomes personal to Sam. That's like, it's such a crushing blow when you first watched the episode, but I think on rewatch, it just shows you how strong their relationship is, like, Santa spa doesn't have to waste time kind of being like, is that a good idea? You know, like, he knows that like, he has they trust one another in that relationship. And because it's so strong, like we can do that, again, I know, some of it is just storytelling convention. But I think it also demonstrates that strong bond that they share,

Christian  

well, we're primed, because of the other relationships between characters and their dads that aren't good to kind of feel like, Oh, here's this conflict coming up, this relationship isn't going to be good, either. Like I was, you know, fearful and sad for Sam that this was going to crush him or incapacitate him that there was going to be this ongoing struggle between him and his dad throughout the, the series the season. And that's not what we get. As I was thinking back through it and thinking about just how Sam is developed as a character this season, I was reminded that there is a unique dynamic in Nigerian culture, especially Nigerian culture, where like the parents are really steeped in Nigerian culture. And the kids are more steeped in Western culture, either, you know, in England, or, or in the United States, of the parents having really high expectations for their kids, and kids, sometimes struggling to like, deal with or process those expectations. And I'm not, because that's not my culture. Like I'm not in a place to really speak into detail about that, because those are other people's stories to tell. But I think about Jeannie Shaarei, who is a prominent comedian, like an epic comedian, and if you go and listen to her stand up, she also has a book out and an amazing interview with Questlove on the podcast Questlove supreme, where she talks about her experiences of being Nigerian English and and working through the expectations that her parents have her same thing with some stand up that Yvonne or eg does. She's an insecure and black lady sketch show. I just really encourage people to go and check those women out and listen to the stories they tell about them growing up, because I do think it's shed some light on the interactions that Sam is having with his dad throughout this season.

Brett   

And you mentioned it before just as an aside, but Ashley Nicole Black is heavily involved in black lady sketch, right?

Christian  

Yeah. So she she is used to like hearing these stories firsthand. Yep. And operating in this space. And it's one of those things that she is able to bring to the table. There's some other parenting stuff. We have Roy giving parenting advice. As it's Yeah, I mean, I'm just saying like as parents yourself, what parts of it? Did you guys think were good advice? And what parts should people not try to use in real life?

Brett   

The the like Roy's nuggets of parenting wisdom are helpful on their face. Like, yes, children want to feel like they're part of, you know, a greater thing like a greater family life. You know, like he says, like, He just invites Phoebe to a podiatrist appointment. And obviously that moment plays for comedy, but those things are real, like, you know, I know that our kids anytime it's like, I'm gonna go to the grocery store. Oh, can I come? You know, they just like, want to sort of feel the like, feel important and feel like okay, like, I'm, I'm helping do things or I'm just I'm with mom or with dad. So I think that one was good. What was his other one? It was like,

Marisa  

Well, yes, they can have ice cream for dinner.

Brett   

And he just responds with profanity. But she says, yeah, thank you for helping me set boundaries, which you know, is also a good thing to do.

Christian  

Yes. And so, you're right, that the nuggets are good. The execution isn't great.

Brett   

My parenting style. You know, for Phoebe and Roy, it works.

Christian  

You guys are really good about folding your kids into your work spaces like you take your kids

Brett   

by necessity. Yeah, right. But your kids

Christian  

like that is a formative part of their life is being in a theater and going to rehearsals.

Marisa  

Oh yeah, they're in the music and theater building at the college all the time. And you know, sometimes they bring palettes because we're gonna be there for a long nights and they just, that's part of their lives is you know being around color. Kids and I think it makes, you know, it makes our jobs easier that we're able to kind of take them around when we need to. And, and it's been, you know, now that they've been around it so much that it's like, you know, music and theatre is a part of their life and their interest in their own sort of identities too. So I think, you know, getting to just be around what your parents do, like, you know, seeing your parents being in their professional spaces, too, I think has allowed our children to kind of dream and expect sort of, like, what's it gonna be like, when I'm when I'm grown up, rather than, like, what do I want to do when I grow up? It's like, oh, this is life, like, this is kind of cool. Like, my parents do this. And like, I get to see them at work. And you know, you, you all have done the same. I know, your wife has taken your children to work with her and around her. And those

Christian  

were there was a global pandemic. Yeah.

Brett   

Not so much recent, but

Marisa  

I think that's, I think that's important too, because you also, you're also telling your children, like, that's not like an Off Limits part of your life. It's not like, okay, we're at home now. And so we're Mom and Dad, and then we go to work. And we're Breton. Marissa right. It's like, it's, you know, this is who we are. And they get to see us kind of in those in those other spaces, and get to see how we interact with other people other than just our children. So I think it's, it's good for them, I wouldn't have

Brett   

said this before having children. But now I'm very much like Pro, like more children being in more spaces. You know, I know not always the work environment is not the place because things need to run efficiently, etc, given the nature of our work. And like Stacy's work, like, you know, it's, it's weird hours, it's, it's late nights, it's different. We, it's weekend. So it's a little bit different than just a typical nine to five office job. But I think that, that, like children bring so much of like a humanity to spaces like when, when you're when you're there with someone's children, like, oh, like you see them interacting with them as a parent, and it just like, it gives you another layer to that person and to enter the into the child to you know, like the way that they're sort of like interacting with their parent. And I think it I think it makes everyone just more aware of like, what they're doing and like how they're doing it. And so it usually like creates a positive influence on the space. 

Christian  

And I like that kids are good at truth telling, in part because they don't have like a good governor over the keeping things from going from their brain through their mouth. And that can be awkward for people sometimes if they like call stuff out or state obvious things that we as adults have learned, you know, or things that you're just supposed to kind of like, let go or ignore, because you don't want people to feel bad or awkward. But in this scenario that we see, Rebecca taking Nora to work does unlock a lot of things for the episode because of Nora's truth telling. And some of that truth telling is just like her going into space, some of it is accidental, like her just kind of off the cuff saying things and some of it is her actually giving people advice or feedback. But bring her into that space is good for Rebecca, because she doesn't have to like it takes the pressure off her to feel like she has to entertain Nora. And then Nora does good things.

Brett   

Well, yeah. And Nora sort of becomes a major tipping point in this episode. I mean, we talked about Sam and Jamie and their roles, but Nora to like, and in the way that she influences Rebecca, and it's through a very simple, you know, childhood lesson that most of us learn multiple times at various points in our childhood. It's just like, you know, even though it sucks, and you might get in trouble, and you have to like take responsibility, like you need to do the right thing. And so I love that there is a frozen tie in, by the way, because there's that song in Frozen too, which is not my favorite song, but I do like the message, which is do the next right thing. And I think that sort of like several characters kind of have to work through that in this episode. 

Christian  

So I love that Sam invokes the frozen series. There are times where it is my favorite song. I appreciate the sweeping nature of the vocals and oftentimes get caught up in it.

Marisa  

So you know, once Rebecca has received this advice from Roy, she she realizes Hey, I'm going to let Nora kind of join in on what I'm doing. And when she's when she tells her like yeah, I've always wanted to see what an owner of a football club you know does that be really cool she's like really since when like since you since you started doing it that's like one of those moments that I think like spurs Rebecca on to this like encouragement to like well one want to bring Nora in and like you know, help to repair that relationship but also like to show her that like what she does is an important job and that she actually cares about the people in her club and and so when when we get to see the boss's whole situation play out I think it's just really really fun the the back and forth between the two of them kind of encouraging each other and, and also having that playful banter as well. Yeah, and banter. Did you Oh, that was good, Marissa,

Brett   

I didn't but thank you for pointing it out. I also liked The physical representation of that because callback to season one, like in this episode, Rebecca is wearing her eggplant power suit. And if you remember from season one, she was wearing that power suit when she was doing a photo shoot for football quarterly. And that's when Ted tells her like maybe some little girls like reading it and thinking like I could do that someday. And so I'd like to think that that played into her thinking when she chose her wardrobe that day. Yes. So we have to spend some time kind of talking about the big protests that happened. It's a silent protest, but it ends up being a big deal. And there are lots of layers and elements that go into this. And so what did y'all think about the way that Sam kind of chose to protest in this way and the way that he wanted to bring attention to this issue?

Christian  

I thought the first interesting thing was just how it was written. In our conversations privately, like we've talked about, I've used the word like, they kind of did a Frankenstein of protest movements, it'd be way to explain it that more accurately, like sums up how I feel about this is a quilted together a lot of things in a really effective way. You have the environmentalism, you have echoes of like a Black Lives Matter protest, you have this kind of Middle Eastern, geo commerce as a front being brought into play. And, you know, if you ask somebody like, What was this about? Most people probably wouldn't say environmentalism, but the people who are into environmentalism loved it enough that they gave it a major award. I would have said like, oh, yeah, like this is about racial protest. But then when I went back and watched it, like, that's actually not really what it's about, it pulls some elements from that. And then people who are outside of the soccer world, like might not put some of the other pieces together just in terms of what's going on, with like, a Middle Eastern airline company there. So it was just an interesting way for them to take all of these elements. And if you wanted to focus on just one of them, you will probably find a lot to nitpick and nitpick and feel like it was imperfect. But at the same time, there were a lot of different people who could I guess, kind of see themselves in this episode, which is a great way to write something.

Brett   

Yes. Yeah, I've noticed just speaking of airlines, I've talked about on the podcast before that I didn't really start to follow English soccer until NBC Sports got the rights back in 2013. And then it made it so much easier to watch to watch it, you know, I played FIFA and kind of knew some things but had never really followed like a proper season. And one of the first things you notice is that there are lots of like airlines, and like companies from the Middle East, and things like that, that are big, huge sponsors for these clubs in England. And so I've always wondered, like, how did how did that sort of start? And like, why is that such a, almost like a cliche at this point of like major teams being sponsored by these types of companies. 

Christian  

It was cliche enough that it was used in the second Ted LaSalle promo Oh, that's right. So as this quote, he says, in my mind, you've got to have three things to be a Premier League team, one, you've got to play physical to, you have to give 100% to the final whistle. And three, you have to be sponsored by a Middle Eastern airline. 

Brett   

a very subtle callback, very subtle level. Yes, I totally forgot about that.

Christian  

Yeah, to understand what's going on. First, we have to acknowledge that people have used sports, and specifically soccer clubs as a long time as a front to other ends, sometimes ends that aren't benign. So like, you know, the drug lord Pablo Escobar, he served as a chateau owner of a football team for a while in his home country. So essentially, he could use it to launder money, Russian oligarchs, they went through a phase where they went up and bought a bunch of teams. And in fact, like some teams in the EPL are still owned by Russian oligarchs as a way to essentially get their money outside of Russia. And as vanity projects and launder their money of a source. And now like the current ownership does your his middle eastern countries and oil companies. And so what is tough for Americans to understand is that all of these things are kind of run by the same people. So a lot of the airlines that come from Middle Eastern countries are owned by the country, and thus are kind of like owned by the royal families in those countries. So then, by buying football clubs, and by putting the airline on the chest of these giant clubs, they're doing some like PR work, and they're doing, they're doing some diplomacy in ways that they would not be able to do if they were just trying to like have meetings with people. Now, the way I explained that was kind of the diplomatic way to explain it. There's another way to explain it, which is more blunt. Some people might say it's cynical, some other people might say it's more accurate and realistic, which is that these airlines and the soccer teams when they're owned by these monarchs, act as like propaganda arms for people who are doing things that are on the shady side of life or that would not be approved of otherwise.

Brett   

So what would a couple of examples of that be like in in the higher levels of soccer today,

Christian  

the biggest one that people would most recognize is Qatar Airways, Qatar or Qatar is hosting the next World Cup. And when they started to bid for the World Cup, they started sponsoring soccer clubs all over the world. So they sponsored Barcelona originally as the Qatar Foundation, which is like a nonprofit charity thing. And then like if magically switched to Qatar Airways, they have a sponsorship deal with Bayern Munich, the biggest club in Germany, they have a sponsorship deal with Boca Juniors and the Qatar ease own and also sponsor, PSG parents, Sandra man, which is now viewed as the richest club in the world. And you know, they just like signed Lionel Messi, and they have name art and some of the biggest names of the sport. And what they have kind of done is use that to get their name out there in a positive light. Whereas there are a lot of critiques in how they procured the World Cup, like through some bribes and whatnot, and then also just a really awful human rights record, and how they treat women, and also how they've treated migrant workers to help build the physical infrastructure for the World Cup in their country. And those folks getting injured and dying and not being paid fair wages and whatnot.

Brett   

Yeah, that that news in the run up to that world cup has been really distressing for for several years now.

Christian  

Yeah. And it got to the point where there was a big protest recently, Bayern Munich, the football club, they had their shareholders meeting. And in Germany, fans have to own a little more than half the clubs so private people or businesses or whatever can own almost half but still the power is with the people. And at that meeting, there was a very vocal protest in the meeting actually had to be paused for a while, because the fans and the supporters of their club were were protesting their sponsorship deal with Qatar.

Brett   

See, and I think that's sort of what we would see in the Ted Lasso universe, were we to be able to zoom where we'd have time to zoom out and kind of see the fallout, which we don't get to see,

Marisa  

which I think is good, cuz I think what we really want to see in the TED lasso world is the good guys winning and we don't really have to pay that big of a price.

Christian  

Right? Well, and they do an Okie doke, which was smart to do and that they had to do in that Dubai airways is owned by one of Rupert's friends. We don't see Rupert's friend. But we are very much led to believe that this is like one of Rupert's old, crusty light fellow Englishman, who, you know probably like casually uses racial slurs when he's in the club with his boys. And Richard seems like that kind of guy. Yeah, right. So even though it's Dubai airways, they've cleverly kind of like positioned a rich white dude in the spot of like the actual adversary in this situation, which is good to do, because they can't have a nuanced powerful like head on conversation about what's going on with like, oil companies and Middle Eastern monarchs without some people that like represent those cultures in the room. And so they go after and critique what they know. And across the board, kind of like who they are, which are like the old rich white guys, and

Brett   

then he's really living up to his name, which is Richard Cole. And we know that you know, Dick is a nickname for Richard. So his name is literally, Cole.

Christian  

Yeah. This, I didn't realize this on the first watch. I didn't realize it.

Brett   

I didn't realize till you pointed it out to me. Yeah.

Christian  

And my wife didn't realize it either. And when I tried to explain it to her after we rewatch the episode, I could not stop laughing. And she was concerned about how much editing you would have to do. When we got to it.

Marisa  

You boys didn't pick up on that the first time?

Brett   

No, and it's sad because Nora, even Yes, yeah. Nicole, and I just thought she had I just thought she was cool. Yeah. It's, it's wonderful. Yeah, it'd be a lot of Greyhound barks in this segment, but that's okay. It's worth it. Just kiss. Yeah, it's great writing.

Marisa  

Well, and we also get to see like the wrap up of one Ted teaching us what to do in these situations, which is to pass the baton to Sam. Ted says that he's never needed to have the same courage that Sam does, because when bad things happen to people who look like him, usually people are already on top of covering that. And I like that again, in the TED last a world we don't have to like, we're not going to spend the next two three episodes dealing with the fallout of Dubai we've already built in like the next layer of who's going to spend answer them, which I think is really fun. And we get to sort of nod to Keeley being such a great. So Keeley being so great at her job that we get to invite banter into more of the story here.

Brett   

Spoiler alert. Oh, please.

Brett   

So we haven't talked much about the music in this episode so far. But one of the I think best uses of Music in this episode comes at the very end, as Sam has finished his interview, or Yeah, he's coming back into the locker room. And they're taking all the fun team photos, there's a song playing in the background that's called column my friend, by the Zambian rock band, ominous. One of the things that I thought was really neat about the use of this song here is that it comes from a genre called Sam rock, which is a portmanteau of Zambian rock. I like these of the song because there's a cool parallel in sort of, like protest and resistance. Because this genre peaked in popularity at a time where there were multiple crises, there was an AIDS crisis in Zambia, the economic crisis, and it was becoming a very popular way of sort of talking back to the powers that be and it's I just like that they've used this song by an African rock bands to, to sort of mirror what is happening in the action with Sam to different countries, obviously. But Sam, sort of like beginning this protest, or this pushback against, you know, the the harm that's being done to his home in Nigeria, and so I just, I like the way that they've woven in this very niche genre of music. And this band only had one album. So this is, this is a deep cut, you know, the way that they've woven this in to sort of the anti establishment messages in this episode is is really well done. And again, just another nod to the brilliance of the music team on the show.

Marisa  

Any other music you'll ever mention here, Brett?

Christian  

I've got one. Speaking of anti establishment, somebody who is anti establishment. When I was in my formative years, Alanis Morissette, she makes an appearance here.

Brett   

It's always great to start an episode with the beginning of hand in my pocket. I

Marisa  

mean, why not? They should just start every day that way,

Brett   

like this episode started, and I was like, Yes. And I love that this sort of like, this song totally mirrors Nora's energy, which is the first thing is where we meet her, right?

Christian  

Yes, she looks very 90s grunge which growing up in Portland is something that I'm very familiar with. And teasing this for all of our listeners. We have had a chance to chat a little bit with Kiki Mang. The actress who played Nora and we will be releasing that interview soon. There was a point where we asked her about Nora's style. And she mentioned that one of the things that she really wanted to steal from the set which she didn't because she was a responsible young lady was a pair of DMS and she said a really quick inside didn't understand in the moment what she was saying. But what she was saying was that she was really digging the Doc Martens yes that Nora wears, which is very on brand for that era of Atlantis Morissette.

Brett   

This episode if we're moving on to pop culture things, it takes its title from a movie that comes from a different time as well. i It's clearly a reference to a Spike Lee movie called do the right thing which came out in 1989.

Christian  

Yeah, and it is a protest movie, so it really fits with what's going on here. Gene Siskel described it as a spiritual documentary that shows racial joy, hatred and confusion at every turn. And Wesley Morris, who is a cultural writer for the New York Times and who co hosts with Jenna Wertham. Probably, Brett you're in my favorite podcast and one of the things that definitely one of mine yeah inspired us to even it's called still processing.

Brett   

Yeah, really good.

Christian  

I think we both credited as an inspiration for us doing this show like he called it his favorite film of all time. And so when it was called do the right thing like that automatically set off a little curiosity bell for me, and then it totally delivered.

Brett   

Yeah, and every time I think about that movie, I always think of the Public Enemy song fight the power because it was it's it is a quintessential part of the soundtrack. And it was actually written for the film. And so there's that the refrain says, you have to fight the powers that be and we literally get a reference to this when Sam is calling out the Nigerian government and he says like the powers that be Let this go on for too long or something like that. And so I love that we got a direct reference to the song that the movie,

Christian  

I encourage people to go watch do the right thing because it is such a seminal film. But also just to see the cast, it is a really interesting mix you have, like Ruby Dee and Ossie Davis, who are in that movie, who, at that point, were really mature and experienced actors. And so it's cool to see them in sort of a pop culture movie. But then you also have early appearances by Spike Lee, Rosie Perez, Samuel Jackson, and Martin Lawrence. And so just in terms of like, what's going on there with the people on screen and what they've done, since it's a really fascinating time capsule watch,

Brett   

as a strong cast it is. And the we did get a tiny little bit of Shakespeare, which I love that this thread just keeps coming up. It's a really, really sideways reference. But Rebecca is talking to Nora as they're passing the British doll store. And she asked if they want to go see the mousetrap, which is a very famous play in the West, and it's run for a very long time. It's famous because it has a twist ending that the audience is asked to keep secret as they leave. Of course, the internet exists now. So if you really want to spoil it, you can, I encourage you not to, but there the Shakespeare tion is that the play received its name from a play within a play in Shakespeare's Hamlet, like the play is called the murder of Gonzaga. But Hamlet, in a conversation with someone else calls it, the mousetrap shakes up so we get a little bit of shake ception and a little bit of Shakespeare sprinkled on top of this episode, which is always a good thing to have. But moving on from Shakespeare. This is a show that is sort of about soccer, kind of what did you think were some convincing and less convincing soccer things Christian, the locker room

Christian  

beer was kind of funny. It's far less commonplace now. But there was a day, especially in England, where like people would just drink beer in the locker room, or there were even sometimes, like bars within the stadium that the players could go to after a match and grab a beer. So there's some authenticity to that. The least soccer like thing I felt like in this episode, and maybe this is like foreshadowing into the future. It's just that Sam never really has to pay the check for his bravery. In actual England. It is inevitable to me that racism would have surfaced for Sam after he made this choice, which was a very brave choice and that he would have just been like vitriolic Lee attacked online. We have seen that recently, with black players in England specifically. Raheem Sterling, for sure, like has gotten the worst of it. And so that would have had to have been a whole like through line and would have involved like bringing up a lot of trauma. And so I get why they didn't do it. But in real soccer life like yeah, he would have been attacked a lot. Yeah. So not super uplifting, but maybe we could end with some uplifting things. Marissa, did you have a favorite quote from this episode?

Marisa  

I love when Rebecca is coming into the office with Nora. And she introduces Nora to Higgins. And again, we don't have a lot of Higgins in this episode, or even like as much as I think we need in this season. But everything he does, every moment he does is just golden. And so here he's he's trying to say something about like, oh, that email you sent you. You did everything perfectly boss, you know, and she's like, What are you talking about? He's like, I was just trying to make you look good. And then he makes this like sound.

Brett   

And then just like shuffles off to

Marisa  

like, Nora's like you really miss him.

Christian  

He's great. Jeremy Swift's ability to unleash numerous versions of comedic furball are really epic this season.

Marisa  

Yes. Comedic furball. I think that's perfect. Christian. What was your favorite quote of this episode?

Christian  

I'm gonna quote Keeley Jones. You’re a mood, you’re a moment, you’re a mantra. Tat has become my go to compliment for people. And I would like to get a shirt that reads that.

Marisa  

Those sound like compliments.

Brett   

Yes, Sam's reaction is wonderful there. Brett. Mine's probably cliche, but I really like After Sam has done his his press conference. He's walking back into the locker room with Ted. And he's obviously kind of decompressing. He was stressed. It's a you know, it's a high stress situation. And he talks about how nervous he was and he hopes the team isn't upset with him. And Ted just kind of shrugs it off and says, well, doing the right thing is never the wrong thing. And you know, that's a very strong theme throughout this entire episode. But I love that we get that final reminder and that when we see the payoff of that when Sam walks into the clubhouse, and everyone's celebrating even though they lost and you know, you have Zorro who's like zorko who says you We broke the tie streak, you know, it's like, it's a wonderful moment. And then of course, Jamie has his little heartfelt toast as well. So I think that that quote leads to a very nice ending of this episode that again, felt like it was kind of bringing us back home a little bit and kind of recentering us

Brett

Okay, that's our show. We'll be back on the dog track in just one week with our conversation about Episode 10 titled, the hope that kills you. You can check out the show notes for links to learn more about the cool and interesting stuff we mentioned in this episode.

And you can keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle is @TedLassoPod. It's a great way for us to connect with each other and for y'all to share your insights on the show.

Brett   

Richmond Til We Die is brought to you by Gin and Kerosine Productions. It was produced by me, Brett Callan, Marisa Callan and Christian Dashiell.

Brett Callan also had the pleasure of editing, mixing and composing the music for this episode. If you enjoyed our conversation, please take a moment to subscribe to Richmond Til We Die on whatever app you are using to listen to this episode.

One more quick reminder that if you have access to an Apple device, we'd love it. If you could head over to the Apple podcasts app and give us a quick five star review. It'll help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all

Transcribed by https://otter.ai