I Believe in Believe (Ted Lasso S1E10)

Marisa  

Welcome back to the dog track greyhounds This is Richmond till we die. An episode by episode conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted Lasso where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. for this episode. Our conversation is all about Episode 10 titled The Hope That Kills. I'm Marissa and I am so thrilled that this is our last episode of season one that we're talking about. But you know, that's really sad, but also exciting that we get to move on to season two. So so soon.

Christian  

I'm Christian. I'm the soccer barbecue guy. And every day I focus on staving off emotional relegation.

Brett   

I'm Brett and I am glad that I never have to walk alone when we're doing this podcast together y'all. And as always, Christian, you're well dressed today. Can you tell us about the kit you're wearing?

Christian  

I have another selection from my timbers line. This one is vintage. It's from before they were in MLS when they were in the Second Division of US Soccer at the time that was USL and it's just a reminder that as our beloved AFC Richmond has been relegaTed wonderful beautiful memories can still be made in the lower divisions of soccer.

Marisa  

Yes, I also played lower division soccer. You know AYSO? Oh, yeah, many years. Yeah. Some of my favorite team names. Quick Silver. Our shirts were  silver that year. One year we were peach and so were the Peach Cobblers. You know, but the parents on the front for the team did some excellent felt work with that one because we had little pies with our names on it with little like soccer cleats coming out of it. So you know, excellent, excellent work. I've grown out of those jerseys, so I can't wear them anymore.

Christian  

So unfortunately,, since there's no promotion and relegation in the UniTed States, you were never able to move up in the rankings with the Peach Cobblers.

Marisa  

You know, one time I did make the all star team though.

Christian  

I know.

Marisa  

Yep. I'm an all star.

Brett   

Marissa, thank you for recapping your professional soccer career. Are y'all ready to recap this episode?

Marisa  

You know, I totally am Brett. So let's move on because I know the people really want to hear more about my exciting soccer career. But let's move on with this episode. So we start with Nate trying to figure out what the heck is going on and assuming he's lost his position to a new kitman. He freaks out bug fortunately, everyone lets him in on the big secret that he's been promoTed to assistant coach before he incinerates all of his bridges.

Brett   

Need to beat or maybe just draw league leaders Manchester City in the final match of the season, Ted and beard decided to deploy a chaos strategy and the mass trick plays that the players have used in the past to achieve this goal. Jamie Roy and Keeley have one of their classic meetups, and Keeley helps the boys start acting like men. While demonstrating some expert level diplomacy.

Marisa  

The game itself is full of ups and downs Roy comes off the bench and makes a heRoyc play only to injure himself and throw his footballing career into serious doubt. While Richmond make a strong effort of it. They lose the match in the dying seconds because Jamie decided to make the extra pass.

Brett   

Even in the immediate aftermath of heartbreak and relegation, Ted is gracious. He attempts to congratulate Jamie but wachsen on Jamie's father berating him for passing the ball. So Ted decides to reach out with a no as Jamie jumps on the team bus.

Christian  

That night, Ted tries to resign from his position, but Rebecca won't let him she wants him to stay on and fight for them to be unreplicaTed or promoTed as the cool kids call it the next season.

Marisa  

And that's all we got for you this episode. And this season.

Brett   

Y'all one of the first things that happens in this episode is that Nate thinks he has been fired. Our suspicions begin to arise when Nate walks into the kit room and notices that all of the laundry has been done and all of the boots have been made clean. They're no longer dirty. And so he's confused. We're confused. Why is someone doing his job, and it sets up this great reveal for Nate's promotion. Yay.

Christian  

Nate is brimming with confidence. His transformation is fully complete. There was a point in this series whenever he would face any kind of adversity or uncomfortable situation that he would either freeze or he would flee. But now as he has evolved, he has also added fight to his repertoire, and I think comes pretty close to making permanently regrettable decisions.

Marisa  

Are you talking about his comment to call him

Christian  

well? Yes, he does go top

Marisa  

and also like insulting Rebecca as she walks in that was

Christian  

potentially problematic. That's a good way to get unpromoTed

Brett   

I love the thing that like makes him like pump the brakes though is that she says why so hostile Nathan, and he says you know my name like he just like he's like, record scratch

Marisa  

another callback, right? Yes, we start with no one knowing his name. And then here we are the most important person in the clubhouse and she knows his name. It's God.

Christian  

It's Also a nice way to demonstrate that all of these characters are growing together. And maybe they haven't all grown at the same rate. But they all are on a overall positive trajectory with their maturity.

Marisa  

Speaking of growth and maturity, we have this opportunity to see that in Roy, as he tells Ted, you may not know this, but you need a new Captain who's on the field. Right? And so they do this back and forth, literally with the captain. What do you call it? The captain armband Exactly. And they're throwing it back and forth and explaining why the other needs to pick one, which I love. And then the last little bit, you know, lands on his head, which to me, like, I really want to know whether that was planned or not, or how many takes it took to get that on my head anyway. But he said, of course, leaves it with Roy, another, you know, opportunity for him to show growth. And then my favorite part is beards like reaction to that like, Oh, my gosh, and then sorry, like,

Christian  

Oh my gosh,

Marisa  

yeah, yes, this is, and then Roy leaving and saying, this is why it's difficult to love you. This is why it's hard to love you. He loves you.

Christian  

I love that they incorporaTed the physical representation of the armband into that sequence. Because being the captain on the field is a really big deal. And if you're watching a soccer match, when the captain comes off, they do like literally take off the armband, and hand it to whoever is coming on or hand it to someone else, the vice captain or another leader on the team. So it was cool that they integraTed that physical importance of the armband into the scene.

Marisa  

Y'all remember, I'm not a hollaback girl, but we love some callbacks. We've talked about it last episode. There's some more in this one, we see

Brett   

who I call the SE guy again, as he's talking to Jamie in the barbershop.

Christian  

Yeah, he's not received with as much grace by Jamie as he was by Ted in the first episode,

Brett   

I always forget that he just at the end of that scene, just Chuck's the guys falling across the room. That's pretty

Christian  

rude.

Brett   

Super rude. We have a reappearance of the plastic army men, which we'll discuss more in more detail later. I also think it's kind of a callback that you know, the pub trio, Paul, Jeremy and Baz, they are kind of nice to Ted. In this episode, we've seen a like a minimal amount of at least not just like totally telling him to eff off every time they see him. They said we know you did your best, even though it was still crap. But so that's kind of nice. And that's I think that's a callback to showing that growth. But also in the previous episode, they approached beard as he was sitting there, and Jane was playing chess with the other guy, and they like give him all these compliments and say he's a beautiful man, you know, and I just I love seeing that for them too. And then of course, there's like the big huge callback right at the end where Ted Spitz, bubbly water all over Rebecca's face.

Christian  

And this is a double, it's the spilling of the water. And then it's also an inclusive Oh, because the series starts with a close up of Rebecca's dry face in her office during the day and then ends with her soaking wet face at night. And so it provides a nice bookend to all that has happened.

Brett   

Yeah. And the other great thing is that speaking of includes those things coming all the way from the beginning to the end, there's even a joke in Episode 10 that made it in from the first original Ted lassoed coaches at Tottenham Hotspur ad. It's the part where he approaches the ref angrily and says, explain to me how that's offside and you think he's gonna start berating him. And then he says, No, seriously explained to me. I don't understand what offside is. So I appreciaTed that coming back.

Christian  

Yeah, that offside joke that Ted makes. During the match. He makes that during scrimmage when he is the coach of Tottenham Hotspur, on the NBCs  ads. And we've kind of tracked where those show up and most of them showed up at the beginning. And it was kind of fun when a couple of them showed up in the middle, and then they bring it all the way back at the end of this arc to toss one in there for good measure at the end. Unlike the British Alto, no sewing on that one. The season ends with a couple of the Matic emotional dichotomies. The first one I think we should touch on is Roy Kent, because because at the end of the day, he exits a hero, but he also exits very sad and when I was kind of thinking about how to describe it, the term that I ended up coming up with was he's victoriously broken.

Brett   

Ooh, I like that.

Christian  

I like the imagery. It can be tough to watch at times. You don't want to see somebody get physically injured and the crisis that he is having about what does life look like after football that he's been dealing with To this whole season as as time winds down, that's obviously not resolved. But at the same time, we mentioned in a previous episode that the question that he is trying to wrestle with is, Will people love Roy Kent? And the answer is, yes, because they don't love him, because he won. And they don't love him because he, he scored or rescued anybody. Really, the love that he has shown is because of his character. And so no matter what he does after this, his character won't change.

Brett   

Right? I was struck by when you were sharing that, that a lot of times whenever there's an arc for a character, and they're injured, or they're broken, you don't really get that emotional payoff that love that respect, the redemption until they've worked through it. And they've, they've healed in some way. And it's significant here that it's in the midst of, you know, Roy's physical injury, that he's there, this chant is happening, and he's feeling all these feelings. It's, you know, it's not after he's come back, and he can play again, it's, it's in this moment, which I think is significant,

Marisa  

right. And we could just see Keeley, of course, and I think she's just as important as Ted as far as being the hero of the story. But Keeley, literally, like, runs across, you know, the field, and then during the locker room, the space where he, he doesn't want anyone to be in, because he's broken. And she's like, Nah, I'm coming in there, and I'm holding your hand, and I'm loving you through this and not like, you know, after it or because of it. And so I just, I just, everyone loves Keeley, she's the best,

Christian  

she's been very careful to not overstep in some of the ways that Ted has been with Rebecca. But she now knows this is the time like, this is the time to bust through the door, to climb over Roy's walls, and to really be with him because it may not be what he wants, or he might be conflicTed about he wants, but it's certainly what he needs in that moment.

Marisa  

And I think it's really important to because we get to we get this line from Keeley about basically, I didn't really ever care about football, I, you know, not my sport, and I just like acTed like I cared. And then, you know, now she she actually cares about the sport. Because she cares about Roy. And I think that goes to show that again, is he is he only the sport No, he's he's word can't. And that's why Keeley's like all about the sport now.

Brett   

Yeah, going back to what you said, Christian, I think that she's able to make that decision in the moment, she probably understands how Roy's feeling because of the the deeper conversation they had had before that, you know, and Keeley's apartment flat, whatever. And she knows what she has to do. And she's just like, saving mode engage. She's not gonna hear him, tell her No. And that moment, because she knows that that's what he needs. And there's a communal aspect to this as well.

Christian  

I think that she is moved by the fact that everybody is singing his name as he goes off the pitch. And that's going to make it an emotional experience for him. I know that for me that there was just a really long moment, like Not a single tingly feeling, but really an emotional moment. Because the crowd and the pub, and everybody was singing that song for him and the here they're everywhere song that is a staple in English football. And that's another one of those that's come over here to the states and gone across to various borders, in various cultures. And for everybody to see what he put out there and to show him that amount of love and to really force him to reckon with it is just a beautiful and touching thing.

Brett   

Yeah, I like that they sort of punctuate that in the moment with the the commentary that's coming from Arlo whites and he says he's always been a fan favorite because he always left everything he had on the pitch and here we have like a very literal you know representation of that where he's like he's done so much that he's injured himself to the point where he may not be able to play again and this is sort of this is our low Why is saying that as the chant is like sort of reaching its full voice in the stadium and it's it does. Yeah, it's a very, I'm getting chills talking about it. It's a very poignant moment.

Christian  

Shout out to Sam for encouraging Roy to stay down and enjoy that and soak up the moment. It does remind us of Sam was not legitimately hurt. And Roy told him to stay down. Now Roy is legitimately hurt and wants to pop back up. And Sam says like no, no, like, appreciate people appreciating you.

Brett   

Yeah, and a 1000 watt smile. Yes, love it.

Christian  

Can't say no to that. Nope. Another dichotomy we see is with feeling. Especially at the end of this episode. And philosophically, Ted lasso is trying to hold two things together at once. One is the acknowledgement that things are painful, like life is tough, that they're in a difficult situation, and that hurts. And at the same time, that pain won't be removed, but it can be meaningful, and it can be redeemed, if people work through it together, he really tries to uplift people and hold them together, especially after the game. And he brings an emotional grounding and emotional depth in presence to the aftermath of that crushing loss.

Brett   

I think when we were discussing this point, before we starTed recording this episode, you use the phrase that Ted has a great amount of emotional presence in the midst of this crushing moment. And I really liked that, because, you know, he's, he's obviously disappoinTed to, like, everyone likes to win, but he also wants that win for his players, because He cares so much about them. And he knows like, how bad it's gonna hurt, especially in the manner in which they lost. It's not like they lost four nil, you know, like it was a close match. And those are always the hardest to lose, especially once you have literally just thought we're staying in.

Christian  

And so feeling as a timbers fan that I'm very familiar with.

Brett   

Sorry. Yeah, so I just, I really liked that there. And I like that he takes a moment, he just takes a beat, and he slows everything down. And he's able to make this really great speech that is encouraging to everyone in the room, you know, it's to the players. But you know, obviously, Keeley's there, and Rebecca is there, you know, and it's it's a wonderful moment. I also just want to say that I love that Ted lasso has a coach's speech stance that he gets into a lot that looks a lot like a ballet position.

Marisa  

I think it's important to note that Ted is a very positive and optimistic guy. And we see that sometimes like, it doesn't seem quite believable, right, people who are constantly positive, or at least like, positive a lot of the time, that can be harmful to like an emotional well being. And I think it's important that Ted doesn't go, Ted doesn't walk into the room and expect everyone to just kind of get over it, or let's talk about, let's talk about the future. And just let's be positive about everything he takes time to acknowledge the hurt and pain. And I think, you know, even in a character like Ted, where we've gotten used to kind of this constant positivity, it's not toxic, it's not it doesn't come in at times, that's inappropriate. He knows that people and the team need a moment to mourn, to mourn the loss. And again, that's great leadership on his part.

Brett   

Yeah, I love the way that he's able to balance out like just being real with everyone, but then he's peppers in these compliments to certain players, you know, he does these, he gives these small affirmations where he points out, you know, as a row, that guy had more saves than a Baptist preacher, which is a funny line, but is a great, a great affirmation. And then he says, you know, Roy, chase down Jamie, and stopped him from getting an easy one. So I just, I love that Ted has the awareness to celebrate the small wins in the midst of this crushing loss, because that's really what you have to hold on to, in order to make it through a hard thing like that. And to drive his point home, after like you said, Christian, everyone's feeling sad and angry. He tells them all to look around and to recognize and acknowledge that they're not alone, because he says there's something worse. He says that after we hear the really moving version of the song, you'll never walk alone performed by Marcus Mumford in this case. And so that idea of supporting one another through the hard times is clearly present in the song. And in the speech that Ted is giving. 

Christian  

The use of that song was risky, because it's so tied to a specific club that has been the club anthem of Liverpool for a really long time. And people either love Liverpool, or they tend to really despise Liverpool. There aren't a lot of people in English soccer that are agnostic about Liverpool. So to put that song in there could have fallen flat. And it's a testament to diversion of the song, and just how well it fits in the themes that even non Liverpool supporters really find that meaning a meaningful inclusion.

Brett   

Yeah, it's tricky because that song it like you said, it is like the epitome of like a modern football club anthem. And so it's so closely. It's so closely associaTed with Liverpool, but I think, you know, they have the advantage of AFC Richmond being a fictional team and kind of this alternate timeline. So I think people are willing to give it a little bit more grace than if they had used it for, say, an existing team. The use of the song historically does have strong applications to help and to believe one of the more moving times that it was used was after the Hillsborough disaster in 1989.

Christian  

That's when that's when Liverpool went to Nottingham for us to play an FA Cup match, and 96 people were crushed to death. There wasn't a lot of like, safe standing area. And so just like that human crushed, suffocaTed people. And after that there was a lot of grief and mourning the day after that tragedy. 13,000 people gathered at Liverpool's Roman Catholic Cathedral, there were 5000 in the church, there were 8000 people out on the streets, and You’ll Never Walk Alone was sung by alone, choirboy to give those people hope and comfort in the midst of their grief. And that's a grief that has been played out for years and years and years, even to the point where just a couple of years ago, there was finally like, an admission that the police and the authorities didn't handle that situation, right. And those deaths were preventable. And that's like a conversation and litigation that had been happening since 1989. So people had been reliving that faith. On the flip side, that song is also crediTed with helping Liverpool win their Champions League Final a number of years back, they were down like three one or sign. They were down like three zero in Istanbul and the fans starTed singing, you'll never walk alone. And the lore and probably part of the truth is that that really connecTed with the players and motivaTed them. And they came back to win that Champions League Final in penalties. Wow.

Brett   

The power of music, the power of music man, and having like a whole bunch of people singing together. That's why we love choirs y'all. 

Christian  

It's one of the most healthy things you can do in a community. One of the things that probably allows Ted to sit in the sadness and anger, which are two emotions that he names After the match, are the emphasis that he puts on believe and hope. Because if you do have that sense of belief, if you do have that hope some people might say, if you have a guiding faith, then you know that no matter how bad you feel, and how legitimate those feelings are, but there is a possibility for something else in the future. And so when Ted talks about belief in hope, yeah, It's one. it's about winning. But it's also about surviving, and then thriving later on.

Brett   

Yet, Ted has been exposed to this thing a couple times in the episode, the hope that kills you. And, you know, Ted talks about how he doesn't really resonate with that. And his is addressed to the team before the match. Right? Yes. And for Ted, you know, he says that, I think it's the lack of hope that comes in get you. And then we have that iconic line, like I believe in hope, I believe in believe. And, as that just made me think more about these ideas of hope and belief, and like, what's the difference? Like, why does he draw a distinction there? I mean, obviously, they're closely relaTed. But I think for Ted, these are, these two ideas are two sides of the same coin. But I also think that there's maybe something to be said that like, belief has to proceed hope to really be fulfilling, you know, like, you have to believe that something can happen in order to have hope that it will happen. And so I think that makes hope, without belief, feel empty. And maybe that's kind of what Ted is getting out. And not just saying that he believes in hope, but that he believes in even the more foundational part of hope, which if believing in something,

Marisa  

I was thinking a lot about this idea of belief and the sign that says believe, you know, even from the first watch in the first episode, and kind of why he chooses just that word put up. And I was reminded of my time back in an undergrad work, where my first week of school as we're getting ready to learn about how to be good students and good learners and in a community, we had to take a Strength Finders tests, Do y'all remember those things?

Brett   

Yep. I love a personality test.

Marisa  

Yes, personality tests. I do too. And they give you your like, top five strengths. And one of mine was belief. And I thought that that was like an interesting strength to have because other people had like competition, or like determination or whatever they are, but like belief seems like an interesting one to have. And so I kind of went back and looked at and says the theme of belief is one Who has core values that are present in in during the strength of belief indicates that a person has deeply held beliefs that are true, unchanging, dependable, and usually structured and interconnecTed. And so I thought about that as like one of Ted's core values. And so his idea of like this belief and hope, like it has to be connecTed, right? Like it has to go along with this idea of hope that can carry you through something, but can also point you forward in in how you look at the world or how you look at the sport that you're playing.

Brett   

So nothing gets completely wrapped up in the season one finale. And I think part of that is because we've mentioned before that they have a three season arc in mind already from the beginning of the show. And so I do want to talk a little bit about like, the growth that some characters experienced, and you know, how we're feeling about where they ended up at the end of this first season?

Christian  

Yeah, how do you guys feel about where Rebecca ends up?

Marisa  

I love where Rebecca is. I'm exciTed that especially in episode nine, we get to see, I think more of an honest Rebecca. And then here, she's almost like, playful and has this energy about her that she's like on the team. And she likes being a part of the team. And I'm exciTed to see where season two, Rebecca starts. Because I think we're finally going to get to see that playful side that sassy told us about. It's a version of her that we saw in that SAG Award skit. And at the time, it didn't feel like an authentic version of her to me, because I had forgotten that she really does loosen up and experience like a freedom after she and Ted reconcile. And so there is a trajectory that they planTed the seeds of their and that clearly they're working to develop for future seasons.

Brett   

Yeah, there's a couple of small moments in this episode that demonstrate that really well. There's the point where she's talking to Higgins when Ted walks into her office to offer his resignation. And she says like, thank you, that'll be all Leslie or something like that. And that's when we figured out that Higgins is a feminine Junior, but the fact that she uses his first name shows this like familiarity, like in this friendship level relationship that endears them to one another. And there's also the part earlier in the episode where Ted enters her office after talking to Nate and beard and Nate, they've told him that it's hopeless, and they're gonna lose and all that stuff. And when he comes in, he looks not like his normal usual chip herself. And she says, Oh, I think it seems like you're carrying around something besides biscuits this morning. And she's asking, you know, you look down, are you okay? And I think she genuinely means that. And when he sits down to tell her about it, she doesn't do her annoyed. eyeroll are like, oh, gosh, what have I done? Like, she's genuinely interesTed in hearing what he has to say. And then that's when she offers him this great advice. Every disadvantage has its advantage. And that's what inspires Ted to have the team come up with the treat plays and to have chaos rain down on their opponent.

Christian  

versa. What about your homegirl? Keeley? How do you feel about where she's leaving?

Marisa  

I am proud of Keeley and all the hard work that she's done with the people around her. I'm also exciTed to see like where we go with Keeley in season two, because I feel like, you know, she's been like pouring into so many people around her like I want I want some time for Keeley to just like be bad ask you in season two, but I love how she supports Roy, of course, at the end of this episode. I also really like the scene that we get with Keeley and Roy and Jamie. Because I think she just embodies like, a baller ass woman in the scene. Because it could be really uncomfortable for like an ex boyfriend to come over while your new boyfriend's there,

Christian  

but isn't comfortable watching this.

Marisa  

But especially when you know they hate each other and there's so much competition and animosity between them. Right. And then of course like it's just it's just perfect the way they wrote it. So Jamie's like sweet and brings her coffee, right. Roy is still in his underwear. So we're assuming is like early enough that like Roy has made her coffee and she's coming downstairs, you know, like, Oh, hey, Jamie's coming over. Whoops. But you know, like, she's just come in complete control of the situation instead of being awkward and like choosing which coffee she should drink. She takes the coffee from Jamie and pours it into the other coffee that Roy has made her and I just think she does it without like caring or making it awkward. And she and like got it. Like if you all if you both want to be here and have a relationship with me whether it's friendship or otherwise, like, it's going to be on my terms. So we can all sit at this table and we can have a conversation like grownups or y'all can leave and like I just think she's amazing.

Christian  

They did have a conversation as grownups. I also appreciaTed the playfulness Between Roy and Jamie Roy locking his mouth up to not blab anything and throwing the key at Jamie and Jamie, making sure Roy knew that he missed it very much reminded me of the games that my young sons play. And it's cool to see that there is I think a foundation for their relationship moving forward. Even if they're not super comfortable with each other yet.

Marisa  

And I think to like Roy as he has matured emotionally, I think this is like something that he appreciates about Keeley that even though he doesn't like Jamie, the fact that she's still willing to like, be a sounding board and be a good friend and be a good influence to him, I think is something that like Roy initially found attractive about Kaylee, right? So instead of getting upset about it, like, why is Jamie coming over here? It's like, yeah, I hate him. But like, I get that he like, wants to be friends with you. And I get that you still care about him.

Brett   

Going back to what you said at the beginning of our discussion about Keeley, Marissa, she has done a ton of emotional labor in the season on behalf of so many different characters. And so, like you said, I hope she gets to we get to see her freed from having to do all of that emotional labor. But I also wonder if we'll get to see, you know, if she ends up going through something that's hard, like how those people around her who she's been pouring into will come and support her. Even after all that good work that she's done. Jamie still has some room for growth. And it's encouraging to see that he

Christian  

is taking Ted's coaching and Ted's advice to heart. It's also tough to see how difficult it is for him to expect or accept affection from Ted, and why he's having a hard time believing that Ted can love him. Even if he believes that Ted may have given him at least one piece of good soccer advice.

Brett   

And there's a moment when he's watching what Ted said about him in that press conference. You know, the team have all watched Jamie's press conference where he was dissing them, essentially. And then, you know, Isaac destroys the television. And that's what prompts Roy to give him the captain's armband, later

Marisa  

dissing him with all these weird, incorrect,

Brett   

final nail in the ashes. Yes,

Marisa  

Instant Karma.

Brett   

It is, again, great writing. But then after that, when we see the Aussie guy in the barber shop, he shows Jamie Ted's press conference. And Ted is saying genuine nice things about Jamie and then also compliments his jaw line, which again, is just hilarious writing. But there's a moment where you think you see Jamie kind of start to think like, Oh, am I wrong about how Ted feels about me. But then the SE guy being the guy that he is, is like classic mind games, right? And I think that immediately makes Jamie doubt himself and say like, Oh, yeah, it probably is mind games. He's just trying to get inside my head. And so it's, it's so easy for him to default to that it makes me it makes you wonder as the viewer like, Why Why is this your sort of default state of mind to think that everyone's out to get you?

Marisa  

Daddy issues?

Brett   

Yeah, and not to make light of it. But yes, we

Christian  

have heard Jamie talk about his father and that that's clearly a strained relationship. But in this episode, we see kind of the brunt of all of that, well, if we put the pieces together from clues that He has given us in the past. His dad wasn't a part of his life, like his mom was, but his dad wasn't. And so you have the absenteeism. Now combined with his dad, at whatever point, probably when he saw Jamie being really good at soccer, coming back into his life, but then not being supportive, not being helpful not being loving, and continuing to hurt him.

Brett   

It's evident in the way that his father talks to him when he he says, you know, you could have scored the winner, like I didn't come all the way from wherever to watch my son pass the ball. And it's like, his dad just doesn't even get like how big of a deal that is like Jamie was basically responsible for that goal. You know, for the for the player who scored it was a tap in because Jamie ran down the field and made a great pass. So his dad doesn't understand success as anything other than like one single person doing the thing. And that's why Jamie was acting, the way that he was in the first six episodes of the season. The

Christian  

sign that we have that we can have some hope and belief that Jamie is growing like the seeds are there and that he'll continue to grow is his reaction when he gets the note from Ted. And Ted has included the army man in that note, as kind of a tangible sign from Ted that he has not given up on Jamie.

Brett   

Yeah, there's a lot in that moment where beard brings the note to Jamie and then Jamie reads it on the bus. The first thing I think is that we talked about Ted's emotional presence after the loss and it's amazing to me that He sees the way Jamie's father is treating him, you know, in the training room or whatever. And he has the presence of mind to make sure that he affirms Jamie for making the extra pass. Because Ted recognizes that growth in Jamie, even if his father doesn't. And so the fact that Ted carves out a bit of time after making a great encouraging speech to his players is just fantastic. And then in that moment, where Jamie opens the letter and reads it, and he pulls out the army man, like you said, Christian, there's a lot there. Because if we think back all the way back to Episode Two, when Ted is giving the army men to people like Rebecca, and to Sam, there's the moment where Sam says, I don't want to keep this. But then if you remember, Sam and Ted have a conversation about their fathers. And, you know, he would say my dad used to, you know, pinch behind my ears before the game for good luck. And Jamie overhears that, and that's kind of when he has this expression of like, like, you guys are so annoying, like, this is gross. And now we see why. And so, you know, I think Ted has all of that in mind as he is sending this army man. And you can see that, at least on some level for Jamie, in that reaction shot that we get like it's clicking for him.

Marisa  

I like that this is where we end with Jamie in this season, because it allows us to one we don't really know what's gonna happen in season two with him. Right. But at least some doors open. And I think it leaves us with this hope and a belief that, you know, Jamie is growing and changing and going to be probably a part of AFC Richmond again, are, you know, we hope that he will. And I just think it's a really sweet moment, and one that he probably has never experienced before, you know, and what kind of I mean, it just goes speaks to Ted's amazing leadership skills, and that he makes that time and figures out a way to, to tell Jamie like, I'm on your side, I got you. Here's something that was important to me and like my son, and I'm going to give this to you to tell you like, I'm proud of you, and I support you and like you did the right thing.

Brett   

So if you follow us on Twitter, you maybe saw a tweet that talked about how we found a song that I didn't know or that I didn't catch in this series, and that was during the scene where they're coming up with other trick plays. What song was that Christian?

Christian  

That was sweet Georgia Brown, which is known as the theme song for the Harlem Globetrotters. And I honestly can't believe that you didn't recognize it or hadn't heard it.

Marisa  

You poor baby.

Brett   

I am ashamed because I've actually attended a Harlem Globetrotters game in Dallas when I was a child. So I'm sorry, I apologize to everyone.

Christian  

We're not that many years apart in age. I am a little bit older than you but for as few years apart as we are there is kind of a, like a generational gap. And so like people my age, we grew up seeing reruns of Gilligan's Island that had the Globetrotters and had this song in it. We were seeing episodes of Scooby Doo that the Globetrotters and had this song in it. They were ubiquitous. And I do think like that changed a bit in the few years between when I was a kid and when you were a kid, but it is a historically significant song. It's a jazz standard. And the first known recording goes all the way back to 1925. Wow. And it's by Ethel Waters in her Ebony for and the version that the Globetrotters adopTed as their theme song was by a gentleman named brother bones great name, who is known as a whistling and bone playing artist. And he was born as Freeman Davis in Montgomery, Alabama, in 1902. Until it's cool to think about this guy who was born black in the south at the turn of the century. And it was significant that his name was free man and that he his legacy can now live on through something that brought a lot of people joy. And we know the Globetrotters is a jokey kind of like basketball circus act that goes around but they did start as a legitimate basketball team founded in 1926. And in 1940, they won their first world basketball championship in 1948 and 49. They surprised everybody because they beat the world champion, NBA Minneapolis Lakers, and it was those two victories for the Harlem Globetrotters as an all black team before integration that did open the door to the integration of the NBA and black players being allowed to play.

Brett   

That was a different time. It was a time when the Lakers name actually made sense.

Christian  

Yeah, cuz they were in Minneapolis, not a lot of lakes in Los Angeles, right.

Brett   

So now this is just becoming a whole episode about music. Because we've talked about you'll never walk alone. But there's also another song in this episode and I'm gonna butcher the French So can you tell us what it's called Marisa?

Marisa  

norgine Oh God, Leon,

Brett   

what does that mean?

Marisa  

No, I don't regret anything.

Brett   

I regret nothing.

Christian  

No records. So yes.

Brett   

So this is the song that plays over the credits. In this episode, we hear the whole song. It's a short song, it's less than three minutes long. And so this entire song plays over the credits. And it's easy just to kind of write it off as like, Oh, it's, it kind of sounds like a standard has some opera overtones. It's just like a nice song to go out on that fits the vibe, after Rebecca gets bubble spit all over her face. And we're hopeful about what's to come for AFC Richmond. But I think there's something a little bit deeper here, musically, that I'd like to point out. So if you'll let me push up my nerd glasses for a second, always push those up. Maybe I'll do this as quickly as I can. The version that we hear in Ted lasso is the most famous version of the song It's sung by Ada Piaf. And she is basically France's national Sean tos like she was internationally famous. She's a big deal. And this song is one of her biggest songs that and loving all rows, which you've probably heard a million cover versions of. But if we look at just the last 20 seconds of the song, there's something really cool that happens musically. There's a bit of space, before she sings the line  which means it begins with you. But as she's singing that final line, there's this really cool thing happening in the harmony in the orchestra that's playing under her that it's a cadence that pop musicologists called the Hollywood cadence. You know, if you've heard the 20th Century Fox, thing that happens with four movies, you hear it at the end of that what's happening on a functional level, musically, is that we're in a major key, in this case, G major, but we're borrowing a chord from the parallel minor excuse all of the technical jargon. But what's happening is we're mixing modes, and so you have a song that's in G major, but right at the very end, after we've talked about how we don't regret the good things, or the bad things, it's all the same to me. There's this really melancholic, lush chord that comes in from G minor to kind of punctuate this idea of like, having the good with the bad and experiencing all that together. And I just, it's a really powerful musical moment that you might miss if you haven't watched the full credit. So go ahead and check it out. If you haven't, we'll also have a link in the show notes.

Christian  

Coincidentally, this is also the song that ended the first season of a show that people compare a lot to called Emily in Paris.

Brett   

I didn't watch that show.

Marisa  

Neither did I. But I did hear that it's supposed to be called Emily and Perry. But anyway, I don't think that you can like, really connect these two shows just because you have an American coming into a foreign space. Because Ted lassos is just better than anything else in the whole world.

Brett   

While they share a similar premise and a familiar one. There are a few good articles kind of talking about the differences between the characters and how they achieve their goals and how they represent America and these different European spaces. There's a particularly great one in the Atlantic that I will share on the show notes. But you know, if you think this, if you haven't watched the show, I don't know why you're listening to this podcast. But if you've been told that, oh, it's just like Emily in Paris, or maybe if you're trying to get people to watch the show. And they they say that to you. I think you can confidently say that. They're very different shows. And they go about, you know, an American in Europe in different ways.

Christian  

They also came out too close together for like one to be kind of biting off the other. Now that's not true with another piece of work that people compared Ted Lasso to, and that is the hit cinematic classic, Major League Major League.

Brett   

It's one of the two sports movies that is credited with underpinning the whole plot of Ted Lasso. 

Christian  

Yeah, totally. And there will be people who will bring up those comparisons as a point of derision. They'll watch the first episode and say, Ted Lasso, isn't this just another version of Major League and there is a sense in which they're right and the creators of Ted lasso. They leave some clues for us to know that this is a take or a riff or that they're using some of the bones of Major League, but at the same time, there are some notable differences as well, such as a major league, you do have a female owner that gets the team from her husband, but you don't have the growth of the characters. You don't have the same growth in the team, like you have in Ted Lasso. Oh,

Brett   

yeah, I've seen lots of folks. It's been a minute since I've seen Major League but I've seen lots of folks kind of do one to one comparisons like, oh, Rebecca is this person Roy is representing this person. And, you know, I, it's because the creators of Ted Lassohave acknowledged that they have used that as a framework, it's appropriate to use that as a lens. But I think it's more powerful than just saying like, Oh, it's Major League. I know how this ends. It's more powerful when you think of when you find those differences in those contrasts, and you see how the writers of Ted lasso deal with that deal with that theme differently.

Christian  

Americans have an interesting way of processing and dealing with homage. And oftentimes, we cannot be subtle enough or critical enough to understand the difference of somebody straight up copying something, and somebody being inspired by something. And I appreciate how we get a very direct tip of the cap at the end of this season, where Ted and his Let's win, the whole writing thing line is a line that is delivered almost verbatim by the manager in Major League, which is a clue to us that they're saying. Yes, yes, yes. Like we know what we're doing. And we did it on purpose. And we hope you enjoyed it. And we were inspired by that movie.

Marisa  

Hey, Christian, tell us about some barbecue and soccer things

Christian  

We see Aruthur Bryants once again, on the desktop of Ted's computer and a different shirt from our friends at three Casey, this one being a pig that says Casey in the middle, a little shout out to the pulled pork and ribs that are so popular in Kansas City barbecue. There was a ton of soccer in this episode, which made it a little bit tough to pick out what was the most and least convincing thing. The most convincing thing would be people using their cell phones during the match to check out other scores. There are a ton of situations in soccer, especially outside of tournament soccer, where other matches have a direct bearing on what's going on. But at times like this at the last day of the season, or like I said, you know, during soccer tournaments, you will kind of see people on their phones a lot checking scores for gold difference, or for wins and losses to figure out where their team is at and having an audible physical reaction while in the crowd. That being said, we should know that one of the least convincing soccer things in this episode is that this match takes place at night, traditionally in England on the last day of the EPL season, they start on a Sunday afternoon, and so wouldn't be dark in pretty much every time like you see the end of the season highlights, it would still be light outside because the sun has not set.

Brett   

That is some good insight Christian. There's also one thing I just want to go back and note for the historical record and that is that in this episode, Crystal Palace has to be Norwich by something wild like six goals. And I just wanted to point out that you know, we mentioned Crystal Palace so much in the show because of the way it's related to AFC Richmond. But in at the end of Episode Two, we did hear the song Glad All Over by the Dave Clark five. And that is the club song for Crystal Palace. So we talked about Liverpool and You’ll Never Walk Alone. That song functions in the same way for Crystal Palace. So just something I wanTed to note. Shout out to the homies.

Marisa  

Christian, what was your favorite quote from this episode?

Christian  

I love my man, Isaac, Chuck's that chair right at the TV and says, oops in it. It is one of two pieces of English vernacular that I would like to adopt from Isaac, the other being bruv. And so I'm trying to end as many of my sentences as possible with one of those two words.

Marisa  

And I think that, you know, chair chucking really seals the deal for Roy in choosing his successor.

Christian  

It's the icing on the cake.

Marisa  

Yep, the righteous anger. Brett, what about you, man?

Brett   

There are a lot of great quotes. In this episode. I say that every episode, but it's true. I think I'm gonna go with Rebecca saying to Ted, every disadvantage has its advantage. I like that quote, because it's just a fun quote that she pulls out of the Dutch football tradition. But I also like the inspires Ted to come up with a trick play scenario. And I just think it's a really fun representation of the way that Ted Rebecca's relationship has grown. She's offering him advice. He's exciTed by that. It makes me look forward to how they're going to interact with each other in season two. Marissa, what about you?

Marisa  

I'm not going to my girl Keeley for like, once in my life, you know, but I'm gonna go with the family Higgins. So they're entering the stadium. Yes, this is Terry. Christina. Stevie. Rebecca interjects with how many kids do you have Higgins, Jesus Christ and then this is our eldest Lindsey. Good evening. Forgive me father. Don't worry. He's a cool priest when your parents have you out of wedlock, and allows you space to explore life's little gray areas.

Brett   

I love that we've gotten to see Higgins watch football with his family in his living room and now his whole family and the owner suite. That's fun.

Christian  

Hopefully they get to do a road trip next season.

Brett   

Okay, that is our show. If you're keeping score at home, we have had a conversation about every single episode and Ted Lasso, season one, but not to worry. We'll be back on the dog track really soon with the special season one wrap up conversation, where we'll talk about how Ted lassa was doing on the award scene, react to the second teaser trailer and share some of our predictions for Ted lassoing company going forward. We'll also take some time to talk about what you can expect from our team as the Ted lasso Season Two premiere approaches.

Okay, that's our show. We'll be back on the dog track in just one week with our conversation about Episode 10 titled, the hope that kills you. You can check out the show notes for links to learn more about the cool and interesting stuff we mentioned in this episode.

Marisa  

And you can keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle is @TedLassoPod. It's a great way for us to connect with each other and for y'all to share your insights on the show.

Brett   

Richmond till we die is brought to you by Gin and Kerosine Productions. It was produced by me, Brett Callan, Marisa Calland and Christian Dashiell.

Brett Callan also had the pleasure of editing, mixing and composing the music for this episode. If you enjoyed our conversation, please take a moment to subscribe to Richmond Til We Die on whatever app you are using to listen to this episode.

Marisa  

One more quick reminder that if you have access to an Apple device, we'd love it. If you could head over to the Apple podcasts app and give us a quick five star review. It'll help more people find in here the show. I'm Marissa signing off for Christian and Bretty booboo. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all.

Transcribed by https://otter.ai