Football Is Life! (Ted Lasso S1E6)

Marisa 

Welcome back to the dog track greyhounds. This is Richmond Til We Die an episode by episode conversation about the Apple TV plus show Ted lasso, where we explore the characters, their relationships to each other, and how they're able to make us laugh until we can hardly breathe one moment and feel with the deepest parts of our hearts the next. For this episode, our conversation is all about Episode Six, titled 'Two Aces'. Aces. Aces. I'm Marissa. And we are loving all the love you have been giving us and so it's making me you know, kind of get into this whole podcast thing.

Christian 

I'm Christian, I enjoy watching Liga MX soccer. And one of my few unachieved BBQ goals is to prepare authentic barbacoa by cooking an entire animal head buried underground with hot coals

Brett  

Does someone come and give you like a literal badgeif you do that.

Christian 

No, I'm just keeping track in my heart.

Brett  

Okay, that counts too. I'm Brett and I've decided that I really like Ted's pet name idea. And I'm going to be using it periodically both on the podcast and in real life. So Christian, why don't you tell us what you're wearing sweetie pie.

Christian 

Well, buki bear. Today I have on my Tigres shirt. The club that Dani Rojas played for in Mexico. I got this one on a service trip to Monterey probably like around 2005 or something. And one of the Young Dudes were hanging out with he said that he was in the Tigres Academy program. And so at the mall, on the last day of our trip, I picked this shirt up and I'm proud to say even though it's that old, it still fits. Okay, little bit smedium ish, because I have not lost the weight I put on during my wife's two pregnancies.

Brett  

Well you look great honeybunch.

Christian 

Thank you.

Brett  

All right. Are y'all ready to tell people what happened in this episode?

Marisa 

Yes. bready booboo. All right. Chad is deeply upset after his breakup with Michelle and is completely discombobulated before entering the press conference to discuss his win as well as his choice to bench Jamie in the previous match.

Brett  

Jamie catches part of Ted's presser and decides he can't practice because he's hurt. Ted lights into him, drawing inspiration from another famous press conference in order to criticize Jamie's attitude. Jamie is relegated to second team status.

Christian 

Out on the practice pitch we are introduced to a new character, the raven haired golden retriever himself, Dani Rojas. Unfortunately, Dani is immediately injured by something not there. We then learn that the training room is cursed.

Marisa 

Meanwhile, Keeley breaks the news to Rebecca that the tabloids have dubbed her old Rebecca Ouch. Yeah, ouch. She tries to cheer Rebecca up. But Rebecca is pretty shaken by the news. Kelly also provides encouragement to Roy and Jamie in turn,

Brett  

in order to reverse the curse, and to appease the 400 ghosts to many ghosts that haunt Nelso Road stadium Ted tells his players that they must bring a personal item of their own to sacrifice in the burn barrel and everyone participates even Jamie

Christian 

Ted then informs the team that Danny has fully recovered. But the next day he learns that Rebecca has allowed Manchester City to terminate Jamie's loan to angrily stormed out of Rebecca's office, leaving her with his best batch of biscuits yet. And that's all the recap we're gonna give you.  After a couple of episodes where we sat, and we thought and we felt, this is like a huge change of gears, ton of stuff happens in this episode and a lot more, a lot more jokes.

Brett  

Yeah, a lot of really good jokes, a lot of really funny facial expressions. And I know that we have praised Jeremy swift as Higgins doing some incredible facial expressions. But I think that Phil Dunster as Jamie might give him a run for his moneyin this episode.

Christian 

And I want to shout out the writers, the writing in this episode is incisive, the jokes like they just come at such a fast pace. And one of the helpful things about all those facial expressions is because they're doing a lot of work, then you can fit in more dialogue. There's a lot of stuff that doesn't have to be said through words because people are saying it with their faces.

Marisa 

That is how facial expressions work. Isn't that amazing? we start to see Higgins moving away from his relationship with Rebecca right in his helping her along with her mission. And we really see him start to join and become more a part of the team as things develop with the new player, Dani, and how they have to exercise the ghosts from the training room.

Christian 

I feel bad for against I mean, like usually but in this case, especially because Rebecca has a little bit of torn this to her and so when she comes along for the exercise and the seance or whatever exorcism and then gets mad at him because he's trying to help the team and be a part of a team. It seems like if you're in Higgins place, it would be really tough to keep up with expectations.

Marisa 

Definitely. And I think, you know, at the end of this episode, we do see, Rebecca is probably gonna punish him for longer than just that, that look that she gives him at the end of the episode.

Brett  

Yeah, Ido appreciate the, his spirit of defiance may be too strong of a word. But how when I don't think that when he decided to help the team, that he was trying to hurt her feelings or get back at her or do anything subversive, I think it came from a genuine place of caring about the club. But then when she sort of gives him that ultimatum, and he looks back at her, there's a little bit of him starting to understand like, what side he wants to be on. And you can tell that he's beginning to work out his feelings, because we know from earlier in the season, that there are some complicated feelings between the two of them. And that things may not be as straightforward as Rebecca thinks. But

Marisa 

Higgins and Rebecca were never aligned in their their goals, or their mission or their desire to bring down the club. And Higgins was only reacting out of fear and especially fear for his job and his and supporting his family. But now we see him start to walk away from Rebecca and join the team and thinking that, you know, he'd rather be a part of what Ted's creating than even what Rebecca might take away from him. You know.

Brett  

Certainly part of that is because of the relationship that Ted has began to build with Higgins and the way he's reached out and included him at every step of the way.

Marisa 

Ted's a great include her. And you know, he's a really good friend too. And we also see him and Beard, taking in this new Raven haired golden retriever, Dani Rojas, and that his first practice there, they're talking about him and how lucky they are to have two aces. Now, one great player and Danny, and then Jamie, if he can just, you know, get his attitude together. And one of the things I really like about their conversation is the literal closeness between these two guys. I mean, there's a whole stadium full of seats, and they're sitting literally side by side,

Brett  

like almost on top of each other.

Marisa 

Yes. And it just, it's, it's funny to me because again, later in the series, we'll see another moment. Out in the bleachers where Ted goes to talk to someone sits right next to them. They uncomfortably Get up, move away and look at TED like he's he's wild and crazy for for sitting right next to them. So yes, here we have beard and Ted and they're they're just they're tight knit they're close, man.

Brett  

Yeah, I love this outward demonstration of their the closeness of their friendship. One thing we should mention before we kind of turn and talk more about the characters and their development in this episode is that we get to meet the crown and anchor crew once again and that we have not mentioned this yet on the show. But the crown and anchor is a real pub in the Richmond area, and it is called the prince's head.

Christian 

Yeah, it is the place to to just hang out. If you're a fan of Ted Lascaux and you see from Twitter that they're filming there. The cast seems to be real cool about just hanging out with people, signing autographs, taking pictures, grabbing a drink, it is the place to be if you're not an ocean away.

Brett  

Why do we have to be an ocean away?

Christian 

full on angry Ted makes his first appearance in the show. I feel like it's been a slow burn up to this point. Like you could see the agitation you could see the emotion bubbling up. But here comes all the way out baby.

Marisa 

Oh, he comes in hot with Rebecca. At the end of this episode, Ted comes into an excited locker room only to find out that Jamie has been given back to Manchester by Rebecca. And he goes in and he is hot with her. I mean, this is the first time we really see him kind of lose his cool. He kind of pedals back a little bit, but then digs in deeper. And this is one of those facial expressions y'all were talking about earlier, but this is not a funny one that Rebecca makes she makes one that is like complete and utter fear. Like she realizes she's gone too far. Or where we sit we we sense that maybe she thinks she's gone too far. And Rebecca learned something else in that exchange

Christian 

to the biscuit maker

Brett  

He is. Yeah, that seems like the nicest way that you could get back at someone like just telling them by the way, I made you these biscuits and I hope they're not good, but actually they really are. So enjoy them. I guess I think

Marisa 

we should all practice a little bit more revenge kindness.

Christian 

There's a conflict in this in Ted and I empathize with him. You know, when I'm at like, my most unhealthy, keeping that anger that rage like are those feelings that I have down? It's like super unhealthy for me. And one thing that Ted and I both have in common is this desire to like please other people. And so Ted is he's trying to make everybody better as he's trying to make everybody happy. Those little things, they eat him, they eat him, they eat him. And this is the place where they just finally like that suppressed anger just gets the best of him. But even in the midst of that, like he still has internal strife.

Brett  

Yeah. And it's an interesting anger. Because at this point, you know, as viewers, we are made to think that Ted doesn't think that Rebecca has done anything malicious. You know, he doesn't think that she's done this on purpose to hurt him. But it's more of like, he's just upset about the situation, he's upset that maybe what she did seems a little bit incompetent is maybe not the right word. But you know, there's something that she didn't think about, she didn't communicate well with him about. So for him, you know, there's not even the added anger of knowing that she did this like to him on purpose.

Christian 

I don't know, we can see in the interaction with Rupert at the gala that Ted does have an ability to sniff out when things aren't right. And so it could be that something seems off. And so there's that kind of anger that's there, but he doesn't know exactly where to direct it or feel comfortable that is fully founded.

Marisa 

Yeah, in calling her out with what her motivations might have been. And we kind of maybe since that the night before, as she leaves the group on the fields, and she you know, she throws off the the team coat, you know, letting go of the team and marching off in her. Rebecca gloriousness. You know, walking on a field and heels is not an easy thing to do. But she makes it look so beautiful. Anyway, but as she's walking off, you know, Ted kind of looks back at her like, like a little disappointed or a little upset that she's she's not joining in with the team, especially after she came that night to be a part of that celebration, or breaking of the curse. And so he's I think he's still really confused as to what the heck is going on with Rebecca.

Brett  

Yeah, I guess that probably could have caused some suspicion yellow right. The other thing about the the curse, fire burn barrel scene and Rebecca's part in it is that she throws in that day's paper. And she throws it in because of the news about that she has older Becca, and Becks is Rebecca. And I thought it was interesting at the beginning of this episode that when Kelly enters her office to talk to her, Rebecca hasn't already read the news, which seems

Marisa 

which she's almost always reading the new episode,

Brett  

when we see her in the mornings in her office, she's either online or looking at the sun. And so part of me wonders like how she reached a point where she's, you know, she was in a healthier place where she wasn't maybe like obsessively checking the news every to see if she was in the news every minute. And then this is like the thing, you know, the thorn in her side that won't go away, and someone has like, aggravated it. And that's This is why she's lashing out,

Christian 

there does seem to be a pattern of her walls, getting knocked down, and I think for progressively longer or progressively locked out more, but then she either builds them up or something happens that causes her to like put them back up right away.

Brett  

And no, we've been kind of bouncing around between several of the scenes where Ted and Rebecca are interacting. But after the final scene where Ted leaves her with the biscuits, there's a song that's playing, and that song is called harmony Hall by the artist Vampire Weekend. And I was listening to another podcast, which we'll link to in the show notes. They had an interview with Ezra Koenig of empire weekend, who wrote the song and as the main performer. And I think that his quote really sums up Rebecca's attitude, and this penultimate scene, he's talking about a part of the song and he says, it makes me think about the past and shame and how sometimes people in power, regardless of their background, or ethnicity, even though they have more power than they used to, sometimes because of trauma or shame, make decisions that are based in fear. In some ways, that's one of the drivers of these Vicious Cycles we have as people, people are attracted to power often because they lacked power at some point in their life. Why wouldn't you be attracted to power if you didn't have it? But when you've been traumatized and made to feel fearful, it's no surprise that even with power, you're still seeing yourself in that shameful, fearful way. It's a tough combo, power plus fear. And that's the end of the quote. And I don't know that what we're seeing here with Rebecca is necessarily power plus fear, certainly it is in that final scene, but the reason she acts the way that she does maybe kind of like power plus malice or power plus a vengeance. But regardless, it kind of has the same outcome, like she's acting from this place of shame. And she's hurting those who are close to her and you know, whose, whose goals really should align with hers?

Marisa 

Well, luckily, we have the hero, not Ted, but Keely, who's constantly trying to break down those walls that we talked about with Rebecca. And she's always she kind of like shows up in those moments where Rebecca needs someone to really understand her hurts and We see that again in this episode, when she breaks the news about old Rebecca. And Kelly's just kind of the Wonder Woman here with knowing how to talk through some hurts with Roy. And with Jamie as well.

Christian 

There's a comparison here to be made in Keely's interaction with Rebecca between the interaction that they had in the bathroom at the gala. And in first one, I was never fully convinced that, like Rebecca was being kind in her revelation that Jamie had brought another plus one. I think here, we do really see some deep empathy toward Kelly, like, she did not want to bring this news to Rebecca, she found no joy, no satisfaction in doing so she really just wanted to be there for her. And it was just like, bad timing.

Marisa 

So I feel like we don't have like a lot of Keely in this episode with the moments that we have with her are really I think important in how she reflects things in the characters that she's interacting with. So we see her being the one that Jamie reaches out to right, as he's conflicted as to whether or not he should be a part of this team thing. And she, she kind of listens to him, we understand that she knows his story. And that really, we can kind of start to understand maybe why they were in a relationship together. Right, we start we start to see more of the hurts that Jamie's gone through. And I think one of the things that she asks him that really causes him to decide whether or not going to join in on this team exorcism is, is everyone else doing it?

Brett  

I love the way she asks that question to Jamie. I think it just demonstrates how well she knows him and how she understands about him that he may be not wanting to do this just because everyone else is and it's a really gentle way of asking that. And it's full of grace. And, you know, before she asked him if everyone else is doing it, she asked him if he's going to go and then he answers in a way that she probably finds predictable. But she doesn't become combative. She doesn't tell him what he's doing wrong. She asked another question and gets him to explain more. And then she sort of offers him this, this resolution of, you know, I like that you're a bad lawyer. But maybe you start to recognize that there are people you don't need to battle.

Christian 

We have a couple unofficial segments that are starting to develop in this show. One is assigned Keeley superlatives, so we have checked that box, the other is asked the question like, how does this apply to what Brene Brown like teaches and writes about? And here we see that Bernie, she has this research and she's written about and spoken about what it looks like for people to be compassionate. And we see a very compassionate Keeley here, being compassionate toward a person who has recently heard her and who her perspective about has changed. And yeah, like she's really able to be with him in that moment. And Bernie talks about, you know, people who are compassionate, like their chief character trait is that they're boundaried, like, not that they're nice, not that they're gentle, but boundaried people tend to be compassionate people here like Keeley is not willing to let Jamie come into her space, she's not wanting to let him get very far down the road at all of kind of a surface level reconciliation, that may take her to a place where they're being more intimate than she wants to be. And in having those boundaries, then she's able to have like this really great, present helpful conversation with him.

Brett  

Kelly has good boundaries, but she also tries to break down the boundaries of other people. In this episode, I'm thinking of one, Roy Kent in particular, she has read a lot about the players doing the work that Rebecca has assigned her to kind of do some team PR. And I love this scene where she approaches Roy on the treadmill, and she just hops up there and she starts chatting with him. And Roy is confused and says what's happening and she tells him that she's pretending that they're on a walk. And that's also when she she shares what she knows about him. And it's in a way that's kind of flirty, but also she's showing that she sees him like she she's the first one to tell us that Roy was signed by Sunderland at a very early age. And that Sunderland was far away from where he grew up. And so he was distance from his family. And I just love the way that she is able to very gently start to cross over some of these lines and jump over these walls like we've talked about before.

Christian 

I believe the scientific term is she's getting all up in his business.

Brett  

I think that sounds right.

Christian 

A through line that's bubbling under the surface for all of this is relationships with dads. We've heard a little bit now about Jamie's relationship with his dad like that wasn't great. He wasn't there for him, Roy Like it's not explicitly stated that he's had a bad relationship with his dad. But he does say that the burning thing like his grandpa took him to Sunderland. And if you go to a football academy, when you're nine years old in a different city, like someone else is taking on that parental role for you. And then we have Ted and the internal struggle that he's having of trying to be a dad at a long distance when he and his wife aren't getting along, there aren't together like they're breaking up.

Brett  

Yeah, this is the first episode that we find out for certain that Jamie does have a complicated relationship with his own father. So let's talk a little bit about what we learned about Jamie and how we see the character of Jamie start to turn a corner in this episode.

Christian 

I think I turned a corner in this episode, like during this rewatch seeing Jamie up close, and really trying to pay attention to things and track things. I was totally over and done with him after the last episode more than previous times where I've watched the show. But the flip side to that is then, you know, hearing him talk, the pendulum really did swing for me to kind of be like heartbroken for him and to imagine, like, the scared little boy that he still is.

Marisa 

I mean, I was I was so annoyed and pissed off with Jamie before this episode, right? Because everything he did, there were no opportunities for the audience to like, oh, but he's struggling with this. And that's why he's acting this way. Right? We didn't know any of his story, really. So yeah, we get this moment where I think we've given so many props to so many other actors, but Phil Dunster, I think really does some really beautiful work in this episode, because he still has his moment where he's super disrespectful to Ted in the locker room where he says, relax, Ted, you know, not coach not. And you even see his friends in a locker room, literally stepping away from that moment. So still, he's he's kind of a major douche at the beginning. But then as we get to the burn barrel, we get some really honest, and some really vulnerable moments. And if we're taking it back to our friend, Renee Brown, really like in order to be courageous, you have to be vulnerable. And so we see that courage kind of something that he's not used to doing, you know, he's he's probably strong and courageous on the field, but we don't get to see him sort of open up to this vulnerable part of who he is. And that struggle, I think, that internal struggle of who, who he doesn't want to be for his dad, or who he doesn't want his dad to think he is, but then also, who he really desires to be for his mom, his mom just wants him to be a good lad, and to have fun and to enjoy his life. And, and I think we see him trying to decide how to live up to that expectation.

Brett  

Yeah, you mentioned that Phil Dunster gets to do a little bit more nuanced acting in this episode. And I totally agree. And that scene where he's putting his boots into the crossfire, his cleats, you see the way his face lights up when he talks about his mom. And then immediately this like Shadow, like he goes into the shadow place when he starts even thinking about his father. And so that's when that's the reveal to us as viewers. And like you said, mersa totally helps us to understand a little bit about why he's acting the way that he is, and the hurdles that he's going to have to clear to, to become healthy again. And whether or not he repairs, that relationship is one thing, but to kind of repair his relationships with other people outside of his relationship with his father, I think that's going to be an important thru line and the rest of the show.

Marisa 

It seems wild to me that it's what episode six and we're meeting Danny Rojas for the first time because to me, I mean, when I think about Ted lasso, like, you just you have this image of this Raven haired golden retriever as they call him. And I just think of him as like, Oh, he's one of my favorite characters. And it seems wild that we have to wait till episode six to meet him. But when we do, we understand why because we have this moment where we're kind of revealing all this stuff about Jamie. And then we get to see sort of the antithesis of Jamie on the field is Danny, who is full of life and energy and positivity and encouragement and he just like runs out there. He's high fiving everyone meeting everyone for the first time he's there's nothing nervous about him or, or practiced or studied. He just thinks football his life literally goes out there starts practicing with everybody, you know, giving props to Sam for the for the pass and you know, literally touching everyone right and and Jamie hates doesn't like to be touched, like gets all upset about it. So it's just everything that we see about. Jamie the first time we meet him at practice is completely opposite than when we get to meet our friend Danny Rojas.

Brett  

And Danny Rojas comes with his own theme song. So you know, he's an amazing character.

Marisa 

Yes, but soon, you know, this is what starts the whole curse fire is all of a sudden he gets injured by something that's not there. So Danny goes down But luckily he comes back quickly in this episode.

Brett  

I say Danny has his own theme song he runs out singing he has done an antenna antenna antenna, Danny Rojas song, which I hope we get so much more of in season two, but there's also a song playing at that time and it's a song called jurkat out by the Caesars, which I know sounds inappropriate, but Caesar's the band are Swedish. And it's possible some nuance and translation could have been lost. And they have said in interviews that that just means to like let off some steam freak out. Go crazy, have fun. But one of the reasons I love the use of this song here is because check it out is on the soundtrack for FIFA 2004, which I've mentioned before was the first FIFA game that I owned. And when I hear this song, I am immediately transported like Anton ego from Ratatouille style back to the floor, the living room floor in the summertime playing this game for hours in the summer with my cousin's because in Texas, the summers are sweltering hot, and you don't want to go outside between the hours of like 10am and 6pm. So you'll be sweating butter, you will be that's a technical term that is technically true. And so you spend a lot of times inside playing FIFA and I love that this show just continues to use songs that have been featured on FIFA soundtracks, I think it adds to the soccer vibe of the show overall. And it's just another really excellent use of that music hear.

Christian 

Question for my friends who are not deep in the sports ball culture, but are generally aware of what's going on in the sporting world. What did you think the first time you heard Ted's locker room speech to Jamie?

Marisa 

You know, I was privy to this, like, pop culture illusion of the practice speech? Only because my brother has referenced it once or twice. But Brett, I don't know if you were

Brett  

no, I I somehow missed this as a cultural touch point. So for me, this did not resonate as a reference to something else. I thought it was funny, but I didn't think it was a joke.

Christian 

Yeah, it's interesting because the people, in my experience, including myself, who are aware of the Allen Iverson speech, are much more likely to view Ted's interaction with Jamie as a joke. And it's really funny, because it's been used as a joke. Like I've used it ad nauseum over the last like 15 years or whatever, to the point where my wife, hey, it she knows almost everything about Ted last Oh, but man, when like that Allen Iverson speech came in. It was like eye roll Oh, my goodness, brought up all kinds of traumatic memories of me making jokes about all the time, but the more I watched it like the more I just don't think that that was presented as a joke, which makes sense in the original context of the Allen Iverson practice speech. So to set the stage for everybody. This is a speech that Allen Iverson gives in the middle of press conference. And when people first heard it, it ended up on sports center people made music videos out of it. When Shaq was shown the speech for the first time like he cracked up said it was the funniest thing ever because those couple minutes are hilarious on their face. However, it comes in the middle of a 40 minute press conference where Allen Iverson is being like incredibly vulnerable, talking about his life. And Allen Iverson has a lot of demons to battle. He hasn't always battled them well, but there have also been a lot of ways in which his life has been challenging. externally. So when our son is born, you know, like his mom's a teenage mom. He grows up in Virginia ends up being the football and basketball state Player of the Year in high school and state champions. So just like an amazing athletes, some people say he's the best athlete in Virginia history. During high school, it kind of kicks off this series of events, where for a lot of the next number of years of his life, he is battling old, crusty white dudes who are being culturally insensitive and even sometimes racist. He and his friends are at a bowling alley giant fight breaks out between a group of older white guys and Allen Iverson and his friends. And Allen Iverson gets a 15 year jail sentence in that fight. Do cheese right? Seriously for like, not really like injuring or killing anybody was excessive. And the crazy thing was, that was like a loophole law that was meant to cut down on lynchings when the lynching of black men was a thing. Wow. Yeah. And prosecutors used it to get Allen Iverson put in jail. He didn't get out. He got exonerated by the governor after a few months but nonetheless like as a minor had to spend time in jail. Sheesh, he goes to Georgetown. As a great two year basketball career, I loved watching him in Georgetown. He was like an streetball legend on the actual basketball court. And when he gets into the NBA, he kind of ushers in the hip hop era era in the NBA, which to us is crazy because hip hop rap music is like synonymous with the NBA. But at that point in time, it was like the, it was a lot of too much too soon. It was around the time where both Biggie and Tupac were shot and killed. And so the NBA was really trying to like distance itself from the rap world. And here comes out and I was saying, like, he's got braids. He goes on the cover of slam magazine with his Philadelphia 70 sixers jersey all in tucked in his like braids blown out into this giant fro. And there was this constant battle between him and the commissioner at the time, David Stern into like, how hip hop, how hood, Allen Iverson in particular, but then also like the guys of his age and his generation were allowed to be and that kind of spilled over to in his relationship with his coach Les Brown used to be the coach at Kansas who was just like an old school dude. And that old school this didn't really mesh with Allen Iverson, a guy who played incredibly hard on and off the court. But like that structure was always conducive to his genius. And so we have this press conference at the end of the season. And it's weird because it had been a disappointing season for the Philadelphia 70 sixers the year before, will largely on the back of Allen Iverson. They make it to the NBA Finals, they lose to Shaq and Kobe, Shaq and Kobe were amazing. They come back the next year, they lose in the first round of the playoffs. And Allen Iverson is beefing with his coach, the organization arranges for a get together for those two guys. And then afterward like they want Allen Iverson to go give this press conference to essentially say, me and the coach get along now like wink, which is a really weird thing to do. But he does it. And during that press conference like these guys are asking him all of these questions that he doesn't feel like our partner, he doesn't feel like they are seeing him well. And the point that he makes a lot of times during the press conferences like Look, you're asking me why I skipped practice during the season. It's essentially because I was I was grieving like Allen Iverson had a friend who was shot and killed. And so he didn't feel like going to practice like for a period of time. And he was really kind of like dragged across the coals in the Philadelphia media. And what he's saying to those guys in this like, time of vulnerability and reflection on who he is and what he's experienced. And just the difference between like him and the media in Philadelphia at the time is expressing his hurts and his anger and his fear and his grief. And they just don't get it. And so the crazy thing about it is like we have pulled out the entertaining bit of it. But Jay Don de who is one of the preeminent MBA writers and teaches journalism classes, like he has his classes go and watch the whole entire speech, and then write about like how its presented and how it's a cultural touchstone now. So to bring that back to the locker room, that we see AFC Richmond, like Jason Sudeikis plays it straight. And while there aren't a lot of like one to one, analogous comparisons to make to like his experience or Jamie's experience and the experience of Allen Iverson. What that speech does do is it places Ted's words in the broader context of like hurt and pain and anger and vulnerability, which is where this really funny thing that Allen Iverson did and said, like it's really placed within that broader message. And so like, I don't know how it went down in the writers room, like if it was pitched as a joke, or if it was pitched to play straight. But I just think it's amazing that this is what we end up with. And for me as someone who laughs all the time to just like sit still and be in that for a while. We see like Ted's anger in that moment. How is how is Jamie affected by that interaction?

Marisa 

He's pretty surprised. I think that he's being put in his place and especially being relegated to second team.

Brett  

Yeah, that's also when we see Colin and Isaac kind of go back and forth with him. And they find their, you know, their identity separate from him a little bit more in the scene,

Marisa 

we see Jamie start to turn the corner once he's decided to be a part of the exercising of the 400 ghosts. And as they're out on the field, and they're burning things, and Danny comes back to to the team. We noticed that it's Jamie who actually calls Ted to the group. He says, Come on, Coach, you know, come join us. And then he's also the one who starts the chance of Richmond till we die. And so it's really interesting that we get to see him not just kind of joining in or becoming a part of the team but really trying to take on some of those leadership roles that Ted It has been looking for, for him to step into this whole time. And then the very next day, he's gone.

Brett  

Yeah, I find it really interesting that after the whole journey, we go on with Jamie through the whole series, but really, in this episode, that he is playing the role of unifier in this scene, and this is also where we're introduced to Richmond Chan, which is Richmond till we die. And you know, since that's the name of our podcast, we would probably be remiss not to talk about it, at least for a minute. And as far as I can tell, the melody sounds a lot like the theme song from the British comedy show, only when I laugh, which was composed by Ken Jones.

Christian 

Yeah, that arrangement was composed by him, but it's a way older song. It's kind of tough to pin down where it came from. Like it's from the 1800s. A lot of people think it came out of East London. Cockney culture as it were, as a pub song. It ended up being associated with war quite a bit, which is interesting considering the War history with the curse and Ted Lasso, but it was sung widely on armistice night, in 1918, then again in World War II, and then people have said it shows up as a Salvation Army song later and a church song later in an oval teen ad in like the 50s. And then in British sitcoms, and so in the Soccer World, like it's ubiquitous West Ham United, they kind of like lay claim to bring into the football sphere, the soccer sphere, they're a London club in the 1950s. But now pretty much any football club in England, there will be like something till I die, so Richmond till we die. If you're an arsenal supporter, it's gunners till we die. If you are a Portland Timbers supporter, it's Rose City till we die. And so it's even like crossed over into other cultures. But both that tune knees up mother Brown. And just like the idea of we are supporters of this team till we die like those are entrenched now and kind of British soccer culture.

Brett  

We've already touched on a lot of the music in this episode, but we haven't mentioned anything that comes from the musical theater world, necessarily. And I don't know that there was anything specifically in this episode, but I am choosing to believe that the no SHODAN Freud his own that Ted references, is an allusion to the song SHODAN Broida in the musical Avenue Q, which is sung by the character of Gary Coleman in that show. Besides that, what other pop culture things did y'all pick up on in this episode?

Christian 

Harry Potter, I heard some Harry Potter

Brett  

there was Harry Potter.

Marisa 

Yeah, we love Harry Potter in this house. Yes, and I really do like what Sam has to say about that whole, you know, I like that someone has a lot of money because of what they brought to the world. Again, we don't we don't need to get into JK Rowling necessarily. But we do love Harry Potter here. Our eldest daughter, who is in second finishing second grade, just finished book five and is in book six already. And so she's kind of tearing through. So Harry Potter is very much alive and well in our house,

Brett  

Sam would be proud of us, Sam would be

Christian 

this is another really great example of fine writing. And then also great acting as Sam that we have the first one earlier in the season, where, where we have this takedown of imperialism. And then here we have this sort of like back and forth to tricking us into thinking we're going one way and then going the other, just with like cultural stereotypes. And so I appreciate how they did it because it's very clear and it's very direct without being heavy handed, and it still makes you It makes you laugh and think at the same time, which is the best way to be

Brett  

and it is lightning fast. And it's one of those scenes that I appreciate more, the more times I watch it,

Marisa 

and again, it softens Rebecca so much we don't get to see a lot of like Rebecca with anyone other than really like Ted and Higgins and Keeley. So here we just get this one scene and it's just delightful and Sam charms are in a way that softens her and breaks down some of those walls and I think really is the reason why she comes that night to the to the burn barrel.

Brett  

It's almost like Ted sent him strategically because he knew that she was not immune to the charms of Sam Obisania,

Christian 

You're a wizard Sammy.

Marisa 

I've never seen Brett more excited. I was amazing. That's really sad. Hey, Christian,

Christian 

yo,

Marisa 

were there some convincing and not so convincing soccer things.

Christian 

We talked about the Richmond Til We Die song that was super convincing, also convincing the enigmatic young star that everybody's super excited about but gets hurt and so you Don't know if you're ever going to be able to see them on the pitch.

Marisa 

Feel like that happens in every sport, like being a Yankees fan is just like waiting for your like favorite player to just like be gone for the whole season

Brett  

Pour one out for Greg Bird.

Christian 

Yeah, sorry Yankees fans, I hope that you're a long time of suffering will eventually be over.

Marisa 

Wow,

Christian 

least convincing soccer thing. They explained loans pretty well in the Soccer World and Jamie getting recalled. It's just sad, it would never happen like that, like Manchester City would not get so frustrated after Jamie being benched once that they would recall him. A lot of times. Also, you have to recall players in certain windows depending on when the con how the contract is written. And teams wouldn't be super excited to send lone players away when they're playing well. The way it works is, Manchester City has this really young good guy that they pay a lot of money to, but because Manchester City is one of the richest clubs in the world, they have world class players that they pay a lot more money to. So they enter into an agreement with a lesser team, in this case, AFC Richmond, and they sent him there with the understanding that he will play to continue to develop as a player. And then Manchester City will pay part or even sometimes like all of his salary. So that's kind of like the arrangement and the dance. And it would not turn on its head this quickly just because he got pulled out of the game once

Marisa 

Well, you know, 10 episodes in the season. One thing I'm I'm really sad about is that we don't get to see what TED or beard put into the fire. It is a bummer. I would really like to know. So if anyone has any ideas of what TED or beard might have put in the fire, please just, I don't know, comment on something

Brett  

barbecue sauce and a chessboard. Maybe.

Marisa 

But y'all, let me ask you a question. What would you sacrifice in our own Crossfire and why?

Christian 

I feel like I'm at a strategic disadvantage here. Because you guys each have your spouse, and so you can feel out what they think about your choice. And I can do that. So I am going to stay away from my wedding ring and family heirlooms, even though those are the most important things. And I will settle on my barbecue smoker, it is very important to me. I use it all the time, sentimental memories as a special place in my heart. And in my life. My wife did give it to me, it was the first nice gift, expensive gift that she ever gave me.

Brett  

And I feel like maybe if I throw it in the fire since it's built to withstand fire, I may be able to salvage it loopholes. For me, it's gonna come back to music. I can distinctly remember getting my first CD. It had Britney Spears on it and it was called Baby One More Time. And if I had to throw something into the curse fire it would be that because that is the moment that even though I didn't know it at the time, I was probably doomed to care way too much about pop music for the rest of my life. I listened to that CD a ton. And shortly after bought things like instincts, no strings attached and went down that whole boyband route. And so for me it would be throwing that into the fire because that is something that means a lot to me and continues to be very influential in my life.

Marisa 

So I'm gonna I'm gonna be really vulnerable with you, really courageous and open. I'm going to share that. My item would be one that has been close to me since I was about two years old. My grandparents bought me a Cabbage Patch Kid. Her name is Ivy. She I like had her and I like slept with her like every night my whole life. I even took her to college. I didn't like sleep with her anything weird. I just like had her like on a shelf or something. But this doll has gone through a lot. So she's had lots of surgeries. She's kind of like the doll that won't die. She's the undead doll. Now it's getting weird but hey, you know what, Christian since you're here and you've never met Ivy I have her here for you to meet.

Christian 

Oh, this is so exciting. Ivy Can I please get your autograph? I've been a big fan of yours ever since the hit cinematic smash bride of Chucky.

Marisa 

See here the many. The many stitches and all the things that are gone through her head

Brett  

is held on by a zip tie.

Marisa 

That's how they came. I think

Brett  

like Have y'all ever seen the toys in SIDS room on toy?

Marisa 

Wow,

Brett  

I'm just kidding. I think it is very sweet that we still have that and our girls both have her on their beds at different points in time. Sometimes she's with the older ones. Sometimes she's with the younger one. And I think it's sweet that they get to experience that memory that you have.

Christian 

I think it's sweet too and as yourfriend if you ever want to I will let you And my smoker. His favorite quote time, Brett, what was your favorite quote from this episode?

Brett  

My favorite quote comes from the beginning of the episode when Ted is all discombobulated and putting on his sweater wrong. And he says he's gonna bury himself in his work. And then he says, no, that has a negative connotation. So he's going to bathe himself in work, and I just love the expression of bathing yourself and work as a man who loves a good bath. Like during the pandemic, I may have been taking up to four baths a week because self care is important, y'all. I'm more of a bubble bath person, rather than bath bomb. I like to be sudsy. But I just appreciated the that quote.

Christian 

Marissa?

Marisa 

I of course have to go with my girl Kelly, do I ever not pick Kelly I don't, I don't know that I have. She shows up in Rebecca's office to cheer up. And she's showing her that she has this notebook, this planner to start kind of her new position her job helping the players. And Rebecca Of course, teases her and makes fun of it having a unicorn on the front. And Kelly says it's adorable. And I just think that's just Kelly and I want to be more like her. I just you know what, I don't really want to care about those people who are gonna make fun of me for having a doll like IV or a unicorn on my notebook. It's adorable. Christian once you got

Christian 

Do I wish that when my four year old was mad, he called me peepee fingers? Yes, I do. However, my favorite quote from this episode was, I feel like we fell out of the lucky tree and hit every branch on the way down and ended up in a pool full of cash and Sour Patch Kids because one of my coping mechanisms that I developed during this pandemic was to eat huge amounts of Sour Patch Kids, and I love them and I am not going to give up that habit, even when the pandemic silver.

Marisa 

Okay, that's our show. We'll be back on the dog track in two weeks with our conversation about Episode Seven titled make Rebecca great again, where we'll meet Rebecca's friend, sassy Smurf and continue breaking curses. You can check out the show notes for links to all the cool and interesting stuff we've mentioned in this episode. And you can keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle is at 10 leso pod.

Christian 

This episode of Richmond till we die is brought to you by gin and kerosine Productions. It was produced by me Christian, me, Brett and me Mariska Brett also edited, mixed and composed the music for this episode. If you enjoyed this conversation, please take a moment to subscribe to Richmond till we die on whatever app you're using to listen to this episode. Wherever you're listening to Richmond till we die. We appreciate you. But if you have access to an Apple device, we'd love it if you'd head over to the Apple podcast app and give us a quick five star review. It'll help more people find and hear the show. I'm Christian signing off for Marissa and Brett. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all.