BONUS: Talking Ted Lasso with Dugout Study Hall

Christian  

Hey, y'all Christian here from Richmond Til We Die: A Ted Lasso Podcast, and I've got a little something different for you in our feed today. What follows is a conversation that I had with Matt Goodwin and Alexander Chase on their podcast called Dugout Study Hall. Now, as you can imagine, a podcast with Doug on the title is in fact about baseball. And we do talk a little bit of baseball mostly in regard to my experience as a Kansas City Royals season ticket holder, which just so happens to be Jason Sudeikis hometown team. But in addition to baseball, we talk a lot and I mean a lot of Ted Lasso and soccer and Ted Lasso and barbecue and Ted Lasso and Star Wars, I get really super nerdy, but I had a ton of fun with these guys. So we hope that you enjoy this conversation. And if you are into baseball, head over to www.PitcherList.com to find Dugout Study Hall and all of the other baseball podcasts they have on offer. If you're really serious about upping your fantasy baseball game, you can check out their Pitchers List Plus subscription with private discord servers, and all kinds of information that you need to take your game to the next level. Alright, it's good to chat with y'all. I can't wait for you to hear this conversation. Sit back and enjoy cheers.

Matt Goodwin  

Welcome to dugout study hall normally a remedial course in baseball stats but for this very special episode a podcast about the Apple TV plus show Ted Lasso. I'm your host Matt Goodwin and I am joined by Alexander Chase and Richmond till we die co host Christian Dashiell, we will be talking about barbecue Kansas City, the Royals, the TED Lesko pod, mental health and sports and of course, Ted leso himself. Lots to unpack in this one. So without further ado, here is our conversation. Hey, Christian, thank you so much for being here with us. How you doing tonight?

Christian  

I'm doing well. Thanks for having me. Guys. I'm looking forward to this.

Matt Goodwin  

Alexander. How are things in DC?

Alexander Chase  

Um, no important weather updates. Is there anything else to report? What other pieces do I have to cover here? 

Matt Goodwin  

Yeah, no, you have to let Christian in on that joke we have. So inadvertently we wound up starting almost every one of our pods for the first 20 episodes or so just talking about weather even when we weren't trying to so now it's become the running joke. How's the weather in your in your in Kansas? Right?

Christian  

Yeah, it switches every day, like we're in the first week of December right now. And we're just going to be like 80 degrees here in two days. And then, like 20 hours later, it's going to drop down into the 40s. So it's always a wild ride here.

Matt Goodwin  

And it's actually sounds a lot like New England where I'm at. It's different every day.

Christian  

And you know, we're not special. I always thought we were special.

Matt Goodwin  

I don't know about 80 to 40 I do have one picture from a couple years ago where I took like, a picture of the temperature outside in my car it had like you know, the thermometer it's I don't know it said like 62 degrees and then the next day it was the same picture and it was like snow covered everywhere. That was a that was pretty interesting. They Yeah, they say in New England if you don't like the weather, just wait wait a day. But it's unseasonally warm around here. It's not like super hot. But anyway, I think we've met our our weather quota for the episode. So what I want to do before we jump into anything, we have Christian here guesting from his podcast, which is called Richmond Til We Die on Twitter @TedLassoPod. 

Christian

Yeah, perfect right. 

Matt Goodwin

Wow, that's, that's great. I'm glad I got that on the first try. And we are going to talk about a ton of stuff. We're going to talk about how that came together we're going to talk about some of the interviews you've been able to talk to cast members and all that but we have to start with maybe the most important thing of all which is your your barbecue preferences in the area your barbecue expertise. What makes different barbecue different in different places? I we have to we have to get this off the table right now or else that's all I'm going to be thinking about the whole episode.

Christian  

Well, then I guess I'll try to describe it unappetizing. So we don't think about why Yeah, so just in terms of what makes different barbecue different region ality there are two things like one is the temperature that barbecue is cooked at. In Texas, it tends to be cooked at a higher temperature. Whereas in some of the other places, Kansas City style or Memphis style, Carolina style, that southern style, they go what's called like, low and slow. And so you're talking like 225 degrees for the low side. And then in Texas, like you know, they'll push up like, I don't know up into the three ur hundreds and do it much faster. Then the other thing that can differentiate barbecue is just the sauce like the flavor profile. And so like Memphis style is known as being sweeter Texas, they only use salt and pepper. If you're a true Texan, like that's all that you use. In Kansas City. You'll have kind of a sweet vinegary sauce. And then in the Carolinas, there are a couple of different sauces, but they're generally known for being much more Vinny, vinegary or mustardy. So you know, it just kind of depends on I guess, both the medium that you're using, and then the process to differentiate your style. So

Alexander Chase  

I, as someone who lived in Texas for 20 years, there's really only one style of barbecue, and that's Texas barbecue and everything else. And like 50% Maybe. Yeah, it's interesting for you to, to hear Texas barbecue described that way. Because just for full disclosure, there's this publication of Texas, Texas Monthly that every four years puts out there 50 best barbecue places in the world list. And they're all in Texas, naturally. And, you know, it's kind of a big deal, though, because like, they talked about all the changes of the past few years. But Texas barbecue is the barbecue style. They're importing into New York to like, serve two places. And it's the thing that gets copied in a weird way. Whenever you want to do brisket. And I take so much exception to the idea that you would cook apart brisket, anything like above about 250 degrees. But I will say that you're not wrong. There are a lot of people who are cooking way too fast in Texas. That doesn't.

Christian  

That doesn't. Yeah, well. And it kind of just depends. And I you know, one of the things about barbecue now is as it's become more popular, there's been just tons of crossovers, and like fusion between the styles, and so you will have very few places that are like strictly a style. I cook my brisket and my beef ribs. I like to go about 285 and that is just kind of the temperature that like when Aaron Franklin talks about cooking his briskets that he cooks is that and so that tends to work for me and not that I've been able to replicate his quality but it's definitely like elevated my game trying to do what he says to do.

Alexander Chase  

And for those you guys who aren't familiar with Aaron Franklin, obviously this is the part of the crossover that we're really hoping for on this pod. Franklin's barbecue in Austin is a place where you can wait in line for a really long time for barbecue that's worth the wait. I only waited in that line once when I lived there. But and for anyone who is in the Texas anywhere, which is a huge state but still worth your while. He has like a crossover project with some of the people in town called Lauro. It's like barbecue, and then also like Japanese food combo and it is just incredible. And also you can get Franklin barbecue without the weight and evening and great secret if at all ever in Austin, I strongly recommend no free ads except this one, if you will.

Matt Goodwin  

So, so. So Christian, what's your favorite place? What's your barbecue mecca?

Christian  

My first favorite, not because it's the best place necessarily. It's just where I fell in love with barbecue is a little place called Roy's barbecue outside of Hutchinson, Kansas. And I started going there when I was in college. And that was the first time like I grew up on the West Coast. And so that was the first time like I had had real barbecue and it's this like standalone yellow building on the outside of this small town and you go in and like you're just saturated with smoke for the rest of the day. I have to take a shower. There And then in Kansas City, like once we move there, there any number of places that I love and I can like lists, the best thing for you to order on the menu at like six different places. But the place that has been like seminal for our family is Gates barbecue. There was one of those, there are a number of different locations throughout the city. And it's like a historical place like all eats is one of the fathers of Kansas City Barbecue. But there was one in Kansas City, Kansas, that was by my house. And so we went there a couple of times just on like, really important days for our family. And so that is sort of baked into just kind of, I guess our ethos now is as a family.

Alexander Chase  

So I want to ask a different question, then it's like, where do you want to go to try the barbecue most?

Christian  

Oh, Austin, for sure. Like, we have had conversations in my house about like, sometime, we just need to dip down to Austin for like, a weekend. And I have my list of places that like we'll go to and check it out. So just from a concentration standpoint, like you can hit so much I've already done Memphis like I've spent time in Memphis and done six places there in a weekend. So yeah, Austin is another big one I just haven't been to yet.

Matt Goodwin  

I used to plan my vacations around where the craft beer was. So similar idea. Similar idea. Well, yeah, we

Christian  

follow the meat. Yeah.

Matt Goodwin  

So we got the most important thing out of the way early. And yeah, talking about the meats. But I really do want to hear how the the podcast got off the ground. If any of you have not checked this out, if your Ted Lasso fan of the show, you are doing yourself an enormous disservice by not checking out this podcast. Again, it's at Ted Lasso pod. On Twitter, you can find it in all the places you download and listen to your favorite podcasts. And in the way that y'all got to kind of go through these episodes is is amazing in that like it's very spoiler free, and very intellectual. And it reveals things that I certainly didn't see the first time and I get to go back and really enjoy those episodes for having listened to the way the that you guys break that down. We'll talk a little bit more about that. But I really want to know how this came together. Whose idea was it? How to get off the ground, all of the all the good stuff? What's the origin story?

Christian  

It was back him the very first days, weeks of 2021. And we just weren't doing a ton like it was very winter COVID He and my friend Brett saw me tweet something about Ted Lasso. And he just saved me up. And he's like, Hey, man, do you wanna do a Ted Lasso podcast. And the thought had not even crossed my mind. I did a parenting podcast for like one season and had invited Brett to be involved in that. And then it just didn't work out with his schedule. So we had kind of had we'd work together before and wanted to work together again. And so I was like, yeah, man, like, I have nothing else to do. So let's talk about the TV show on the internet. And then we spent a couple months like kind of planning it out and trying to figure out what we wanted the show to look like and be and do. And then we just kind of jumped in. And yeah, like had a fun time hanging with each other.

Matt Goodwin  

Yeah, I mean, definitely, you can tell that, that you all get along and get each other, have really great chemistry in the way that you put things together. And one of the things that that you have managed to do, which is really, really impressive and enjoyable to listen to is not just that you go through each episode, but you've been able to have interviews with cast members, who you you've connected with in various ways. So talk to us a little bit about some of those. And then hit us up with your favorite, your favorite cast interview and let us know why that was your favorite.

Christian  

The cast has been fun. They're super interactive. And I think that has to do with the show being a slow burn in terms of its popularity, like now if you follow media and TV. It's ubiquitous. Like it's yeah, one all these Emmys and all these awards, but it really took a while for people to catch on to it. And so during those early months, the cast I just think was like so grateful and probably maybe like a little relieved that this thing that they thought was good. Everybody else was thinking was good, that they've been like super interactive on the internet and willing as much as they have time to to do interviews and interact with fans, which is is cool. So, you know, like, we'll hit people up on Twitter and if they can do it, they can do it. There have been some folks. We kind of have to like try to work through agents or publicist and just sort of depends on the profile of the actor and what's going on and how big the show is getting. For my favorite one. I really I really enjoyed the interviews that we did with two of the kids on the show. LED Blomfield who plays Phoebe And then Kiki May and she plays Nora. And I think the reason behind that is, for each of them those were there, like we did their first interviews. And as a parent, like, I really wanted to do it because I thought we could do it well, but I also wanted it to be a really positive experience for the kids and their parents. Yeah. And I do like, I think we landed that, like, I think, when we finished and when those episodes are published, like the kids had fun, and the parents were like, Okay, I'm glad that we trusted these people to do it. And I think, you know, we're giving fans of the show, insight that they didn't have otherwise. And I think that maybe in surprising people with those interviews, insights in an experience that like they maybe didn't even know that they wanted or could get. So that part has been super fun.

Matt Goodwin  

Alexander, what is what's your favorite part of the show itself? The Ted last show.

Alexander Chase  

So tell us what was like, very different than most of the other TV I consume. And to be clear, I consumed the first season really quickly. And then the slow the second season really slowly, which is kind of a strange thing. But I tend to mostly watch TV about terrible people are getting, like what they deserve, if that makes sense. Like, the most important TV shows I've watched in the past year in change. I mean, I, I'm the sort of person who like, gets just absolutely fired up to watch succession, and just all the mess that is, but I think the most important TV show I've seen is the good place, like in the past couple years, like I watched that, because it came out. And then like, you know, other things are kind of like sit in that sort of like, instead of good things happening for good people, bad things happening to bad people, like that's my ideal, ideal kind of media. I want to cheer for real people and hate fake people like that. That's the energy honest man. So like, it's really weird to watch any part of Ted Laso and want to cheer for any of the characters for me, because it's a fictional thing. And as a result, as I watched it, I had this weird sort of dread, it's like something awful is going to happen. And without smelling much about the show, the way that it kind of subverts the expectations you have about who you're cheering for, what you're cheering for, who is actually good, and like what it means to improve or get worse as a person are kind of really great. So if I can say one particular thing without spoiling a whole lot, there's

Matt Goodwin  

WARNING WARNING, no, no, really, actually.

Alexander Chase  

I promise, I promise, I promise. So someone has a cameo in the second season, who I recognized as like a comedic actor, who is playing a very, like, profound, like, important role. And then like, they have this great like, switch flip towards the end. That really, really satisfied me as a viewer. And I thought it was a sort of like, great, sort of like, I feel like I know what's coming. But I know that I trust people who write this enough to like, make me think about it. And yeah, I know, I mean, I feel like feeling good. Well, while you're watching TV is kind of weird for me. And it's done a good job of making me feel good more often than I normally do. So yeah.

Matt Goodwin  

You're you're definitely right, it was a slow burn to its popularity, I actually remember being so into it. And not a lot of other people had really watched it or maybe even heard of it. And I really wanted to like respond on Twitter to people with Ted Lasso gifts, and they weren't anywhere to be found. And like you said, now they're, they're everywhere, people using them all the time. So I one of the things I really love about this show, and then we're actually going to switch gears a little bit, and then we're going to circle all the way back to the actual episodes. I I'm a seventh grade teacher in my day job. And so one of the things that I and I teach social studies, one of the things I talk to my kids about all the time I was doing it today is is that a lot of the media that we consume, we have superheroes and supervillains to one degree or another, whether it's MCU, or whether it's, you know, even something like a sopranos where, you know, he's a bad guy, but he's the good guy in this in this show, right? The anti hero. It's, you know, who you're rooting for, you know, good people do good things, and bad people do bad things. And, and, you know, it's pretty easy. And when you look at your own life through that lens, it can make you feel all sorts of ways. And when I'm trying to teach, you know, 12 and 13 year olds about the world, one of the things that is hard sometimes I think for them to grasp and understand is the complexity of humanity, and that bad people can do and are capable of doing good, whatever the motivations and good people are capable of making mistakes and doing bad things. And I think this show is really excellent. As it plays out at showing that that complexity of people who Another show would just be the heel. And that's all they would be, and, and the hero. And in showing that there are, there are different sides to that. I don't know I it's one of the things that I really enjoy very much about the show. And we are going to get back to talking more about actual Ted last. But I got one more thing I want to talk to you about Christian before we take a small break, and then circle back to really diving into some of the the content. And that is that you were a Kansas City Royals season ticket holder. And I want to know more about that.

Christian  

Yeah, it was fun. Even though there were during years, the Royals were really bad. Like he was probably I don't know, like 2008 through 2011. And so, you know, the, for the most part, like the stadium wasn't very full on the Royals didn't win a lot of games. But there's something about baseball that is conducive to a social experience where you, like, connect with other people through conversation while the game is going on, that you can't have really well when you go to watch other sports. And so you know, we had a lot of fun memories of going to afternoon games, and like our oldest son, he's in sixth grade now. But like he went to his first Royals game when he was 18 days old, because we had tickets and like, we're like, kind of getting cabin fever or whatever, because we would have just been in the house. And we knew that we could go for six innings if we wanted and then leave. And so just have a lot of memories in that park and of players. And then it was obviously fun for you know, four years when when they were really good and really good in surprising ways. And kind of like became America's team for the time when they were kind of upsetting people, I guess. And being The Little Engine That Could

Matt Goodwin  

Alexandria, what are your memories of the Kansas City Royals from that time,

Alexander Chase  

so as a youth or whatever, I feel like the Royals World Series runs, were some of the ones that I get to like, enjoy with people in a much more public way than like any of the other ones. That's like when I was like living in the dorms in college. It's like watching the Royals win. Which is really cool, actually. You know, because when else do you get like, just yell at everyone else for being like, I don't know what Red Sox fans I guess, right? Yeah, no, hey, no, exactly doing. So like I have some fond memories there. It's been nice in the years sentence on, you know, new owner, John Sherman is definitely a person like, I kind of trust more than about 25 They'll use to the other owners to like, try to do a good job. Just kind of nice. So, you know, it's been fun to kind of casually root for the Royals to be above average. And you know, it's not like Kansas City is a place where you can't win, like, sports things like chiefs are good at football, draw a bajillion people. Do you know how much money gets pumped into Kansas basketball every year? Like, there's no reason why you can't try to be good at baseball, that in Kansas City, it's a pretty big city. So yeah, I'm, I'm really hoping that, you know, as things shake out with the new CBA, there are some interesting and read, I really hope they happen. suggestions about shrinking down to just four divisions, you know, two and two, which would mean that the Royals would no longer be competing with, you know, the Al Central's lack of spending, and we have tried probably a little bit harder than they currently are. But they've been tracking towards trying for training sake. And, you know, if there's one fandom that I'm happy that we can have two consecutive Royals fans, I guess, in fact, bag weeks. That's definitely one of the teams. I'm happy to have it so yeah, good for y'all. That is that is absolutely nothing. I have no problem for and I mean, like it's fun to root against the Red Sox, not just because, you know, I'm not because that's how things work. I can handle it. But yeah, that's the only thing Well, here's, you know, it's only people who can't handle it because there's just like, nothing redeemable that makes it fun.

Christian  

Kind of intersection between what we were talking about earlier with title so and character arc is like the the word for, you know, people changing and they're not being good guys and bad guys. Like that happened with the Royals, you know, their owner, essentially, like bought the team from a beloved owner who passed away on the cheap, and there are serious questions as to whether or not he wanted to win for a very long time. Like, you know, he was just gonna kind of milk it for what it was worth and then let it go. And then there did come a point where a switch flipped for him. And when they started trying and spending some more money and being strict TJ, and they did have to find ways to smartly spend more money in ways that other teams weren't. But then winning did become important to him. And when he sold the team to John Sherman, you know, he, David glass had cancer and kind of knew that he was in, you know, his last days years. And just in terms of building legacy, and doing right by the city, he approached John Sherman, saying, like, I know that you love this city, like you are a Kansas City, and you are a proven businessman, I want you to buy this team. And I know that you love baseball, because John Sherman was part of the Cleveland Indians ownership group at that time. And so going from being someone, an owner that fans protested and hated, and felt like, you know, they were really, their experience was getting cheated, and that he didn't even care about Kansas City, for him to then deliver those memories and a championship. And then to really hand the team off in an intentional way to someone who would do well by the city is an incredible arc that someday, like, there should probably be a movie about.

Matt Goodwin  

Well, I was gonna ask you one more question. But I think that that's a pretty a pretty sweet way to end that segment. And I know that we are all very excited to get into talking about like the life lessons of Ted Lasso, and how that is universally applicable to all sports, including baseball. But before we get to that, we are going to take a small break, and we will be right back.

Unknown Speaker  

Do you know anyone who wouldn't drive drunk but would drive high and people

Unknown Speaker  

who would never drive drunk would drive high? Why were taught in schools not to drive while drunk. But we don't really talk about the dangers of driving high.

Unknown Speaker  

Let's talk about it. What are the dangers,

Unknown Speaker  

your decision making becomes impaired, it's not as fast and it can become deadly very quickly.

Unknown Speaker  

You're absolutely right, a message from k dot and your Kansas law enforcement community. And we're back.

Matt Goodwin  

So now is the opportunity Christian, where we can really start to dive into sort of those lessons, those takeaways. It seems as though something that's very important to the three of you, you're on your pod is is kind of talking about mental health in general. And and you know, how people kind of see themselves and the lessons for, for men and white men to kind of take from the show about maybe better ways of being, and all of these things that are working in a show at a time where people are incredibly divided and constantly fighting. And there's a lot of toxicity and the lessons that this provides for us. So I guess we could start with something pretty broad and just say like, what do you think are? Are the broad strokes of this show? We've touched on a couple of them. But if you had to, like attach a theme to this show, what would you maybe say that is?

Christian  

It's a show about vulnerability, it continues to ask the question of, who are you going to let in? And who are you going to take a risk to love and there are times where that plays out in sporting terms, you know how bad it hurts when your team gets close, and doesn't win, and just how people can live and breathe with that community experience, right of rooting for a team together, but then also in relationships. And so you said earlier that there are a lot of subversive things that happen in Ted Lasso. And some of those subversive things are, you know, like men being vulnerable with each other, or subverting, you know, the masculine and feminine characteristics that we expect in romantic relationships. And so it just like, through these first two seasons, that is the question that it continues to ask is, what does it mean for us? I guess to like, risk things with each other, maybe like to be brave enough to do that and to trust each other enough and to be trustworthy enough where we can be risky with each other in healthy growth oriented ways.

Matt Goodwin  

Definitely. To that point, I'm going to ask you, again, we're going to try and stay spoiler free here. I know there's something that you try really hard on on your podcast to do, which is actually very impressive for a podcast dedicated entirely to a show to not be filled with spoilers is remarkable. What would you say if you were to take the character of just Ted the main the main character in the show his best qualities and his worst qualities and why? Because I have a feeling and listen, I'm not trying to paint you in a corner here. You can answer this however you want. But I have a feeling that maybe some of what we're looking at is worst qualities. There's a there's some layers to that. So you What do you think are his his best and worst qualities and why

Christian  

the best quality is not quitting on people, he does have a deep sense of belief and people's capacity to change and to improve. And I, yeah, he's just very, I guess, helpful in people and trying to see the best in them. And that is something that, you know, in this world that we are living in right now, that is just really difficult to do, and that we need a lot more of the thing about Ted's worst qualities is, in season two, we start to learn why people are the way they are, right, I guess that maybe starts in, you know, the last couple episodes of season one with some characters that are like, just act in unconscionable ways, and then you kind of like, start to get some pieces together. And that doesn't, you know, excuse their behavior. But it at least helps you see where they're coming from, like, what their hurts are, what their brokenness is, the roots of their dysfunction. And so, you know, for Ted, we do see him in his rosiness. Sometimes, like sacrificing things that could be good for other people, because he's so focused on personal development, it's like, you know, you still have a job, and they're still people that you are accountable to, on a sporting level. And he doesn't always do the best by them in some situations, because he's trying to develop people. And there are, I guess, just times, especially in the second season, where then he even loses himself a bit. And there are reasons, but if he would, his journey of like opening up and being vulnerable, and trusting and doing all of those things, you just kind of start to see that he has some work to do there. And so for him to be the best version of himself, he's going to need to do some of the things that he is trying to get other people to do. So

Alexander Chase  

one of the things that I feel is like kind of interested in in, those are words, words, they things I think are kind of interesting about like watching and thinking about how people change and Ted leso and a lot of other TV because I don't think you can watch TV these days. Without watching everything else, right? You watch TED Lassa, with all the expectations that all the other shows you've watched over the past 10 years put on you is how kind of free almost everybody on the cast is from like the way that like working and money like distorts your mind and destroys your mind. Because like, it's really easy to imagine, like, I know how much money a team loses because they get less good results in the Premier League. Let me put it that way. And to think then, that like someone who is an owner and has just unfathomable amounts of money, we're just willing to leave money on the table is not something that characters and a lot of shows what would likely happen to them. The idea that players would lose money that any of these people would make choices that would sacrifice their own bottom line. It's not something a lot of shows explore. And I don't think it's a title so largely explore. So I'm very interested to see how Rebecca's husband kind of fares in the long run, because he definitely seems like the person they're writing to kind of do those sorts of things. So like, I feel like a lot of other money or a lot of other shows tread that ground in some really well trodden ways. And no, do you find it refreshing to find that that's not a topic of conversation as often as it could be?

Christian  

You Yeah, one of the segments that we have on our show is, you know, like what was the the like, most real life soccer thing in this episode and what was like the least real life soccer thing, because there's so many people that watch the show that aren't soccer fans, right? And there are a number of times where it kind of comes back to like, this decision would not be made because it just like doesn't make financial sense and people in this world don't do that. And so as a show we try to acknowledge those things and we do try to point them out in like we try not to be super like condescending soccer fans to people. But we do just try to like at least acknowledge it and say, Yeah, this this is how it would go. We understand why and now like we're gonna move on so yes, you're right, the money thing often doesn't ring true to life and allows the characters to do things they otherwise wouldn't do in the real world.

Matt Goodwin  

Do you think that some of that is like you said, there's non soccer fans watching and so they really want to just show like this this is really driven by a desire for vengeance and I'm at all costs. So it might not be soccer realistic, but it's it's necessary as a device for helping non soccer people understand like the depths of the Feeling that is going on? Or is it just maybe an oversight?

Christian  

No, I think it's intentional. With storytelling, you have to make sacrifices. And this is not a sports show. This is a show that uses sports as a vehicle to talk about life and about people. And I don't there's just not a lot about this show. I think that is happenstance. Like Sasha is intentional. And, you know, while that piece often doesn't ring real, I think they also deserve a lot of credit for the attention to detail that they pay to soccer stuff. And as a soccer fan, there are a lot of times where I'm like, Man, that's really good. Like that, really is impressive that they were able to do that, or that really does ring true

Alexander Chase  

yet watching coach beard Reed, inverting the pyramid episode of Saudi out is really accurate, because that's on my wish list actually, for Christmas, if someone in particular is listening to this,

Matt Goodwin  

okay, fine, fine.

Alexander Chase  

Be like, I find that a lot of like, the idea of cheering for the owner of a sports team is so antithetical to a lot of the things I'm talking about so often. And it's, it's, it's kind of funny to hear it was like, oh, like not even 15 minutes ago talking about home soft rooting for the Royals, because their owners less bad. Me know, the realities of it is that like a lot of sports programming, we can assume it's kind of exists on this sort of, like, Kid level, where you're like, we're like, your protagonists are kids in some sort of way. And they can be detached from these realities. You know, so much children's content, makes the smart choice to suspend disbelief to let people make character choices, rather than be like, Nope, they would just go to jail, or the bad guys would just be competent. And they would stop you because you weighed 80 pounds. And I think there's a lot of that actually, that like, you know, if you compare Ted law, so to so much of like the kind of nostalgic sports content, it knows what world its existing, and when it ignores those realities, or lets them play in some different ways. I like it, because I can just go consume all of the bad guys evil show on HBO after the fact later on. And I think that's fine. But you know, it's, it's kind of hard at the other time and think like, so many of the things that contribute to what we actually talk about as mental health for like people who don't make soccer player salaries do come from like, not having money, and having to work and obscene amount of hours and stuff like that. So it's interesting to kind of like, be really critical and like, put on my my being upset cap, and then just things we take it right off because like, I'm a human person who can just like not for a second, and like enjoy things. Because you know, there are lots of discussions can be had about all sorts of different con content, right. And we don't all need to collapse into each other. Ted Lasso can work differently than white lotus. And I can enjoy that and learn things from it. And like, think about how much being a Tottenham Hotspur fan hurts me instead of how much you know, my job is me.

Christian  

And it is I mean, it's honest about what it is. Yeah, premise of the show is that a division to like college football coach at a school that doesn't have football in Wichita, goes and coaches a Premier League team, like from the jump. There's a giant clue there that like we are not this is not a documentary, right? We are going to have to really like suspend some things. And I guess probably part of the credit of the show is there are aspects of the sport, the sporting, world that exists in that are so convincing, that sometimes we forget from the start the whole thing's like preposterous. Yeah.

Matt Goodwin  

That's, that's a good word. I'll show you what I know about soccer. When when he's reading, inverting the pyramid, I thought that that was more symbolic of like seat Ted putting himself at the bottom and everybody else in front of him and trying to lead from behind and all of those things. And then Alexander was just like, No, no, that's a real thing. And it's a book and it's this and that. And so there you go. But the fact that I can be so sucked into a show, and that's that I have very little knowledge of soccer, I think is a credit to as you said before, it's not a show about soccer. It's a show about people and relationships actually reminds me in that way. And it's a very different show, but there's a through line with Bill Lawrence in scrubs and that a lot of people who work in hospitals have actually said it's one of the more accurate shows for the medicine, but it's not a show about doctors it's a show about relationships and how people connect and disconnect and love and hate and are frustrated and you know, craving attention from a father figure and you know, all of those those really life lesson things that could have been said anywhere. So I think that that's um, it really does speak to the character in the heart of the show that somebody like me who had had No idea what that book was all about. Or the the relevance of it and the idea of like beard reading it on the plane while TED is gonna, you know, sleep it off. Yeah write it I mean it's there's just so many levels there I think that you can appreciate this show in so many ways and if you don't happen to know what you need to know to appreciate it on one level you can get it on six others it's just so well well put together

Christian  

it's what makes it a great show to like do a podcast about because there's always something that is fun for us as hosts to learn when we have questions and we like make a note of something and then you know, there's always something for us to like bring to the table to hopefully I don't know just like be a tool to help people enjoy the show, I guess on a different level or a little bit more however, like you want to say it but just I guess to maybe make the next time they watch it a different experience from the last time they watched

Alexander Chase  

1. So I have like a two on topic question for myself. And I'm okay with how this is gonna play out. How much like Premier League Soccer. Do you watch regularly?

Christian  

All of it is all of it. Yeah, yeah.

Alexander Chase  

Yeah. Which Which team do you do you watch most often slash call your own slash get angry at the most all the same question really?

Christian  

Norwich? Yeah, Norwich, Connecticut.

Alexander Chase  

Real good answer I want to Norwich kid actually, they're there. They're green and yellows, beautiful cars. So like, I feel like then if you're in that position, like the sort of like rebounding back and forth for everything has to be really interesting. Like, how do you kind of like compare that to like, how you have experienced like, sports fandom for like American sports, really, the whole promotion relegation, and like everything else is so much different.

Christian  

Yeah, you know, being a Royals fan is similar, I guess, to being an orange fan, you don't go up and down between leagues in, well, any American sport, I guess. But in baseball, but there are times where you feel like you are part of the bigger competition, and there are times where you don't because in baseball, you can have developmental times where you're paying a little bit more attention to the minor leagues, and because you just like don't have a chance at the playoffs or whatever. So I guess that is similar. You know, to me, the thing that soccer is most like, on the international stage is really college football in the US like, to me that is the closest analogue just in terms of the way people find identity in it. And so you can actually, in a lot of ways, like kind of be okay, with where you're at and who you are. And so, you know, you see that with like division two schools and division three schools, and even sometimes, like in smaller conferences that may not have teams that can compete for the national championship, like, I think they want to in a dream about it, and maybe there's gonna be this fairy tale, like in the English Premier League, Leicester City was a couple of years ago. But they're also like great things in qualifying for like the best bowl game you can and doing well there and maybe, like upsetting somebody. So, you know, to me, like that is one of the reasons that I love. Soccer is not like, the competition is cool. But then also knowing that there's something beneath that that's full of meaning that doesn't exist in most other sports is also part of like, why just enjoy being part of that world.

Matt Goodwin  

When I was 16, I went to Germany to stay with a student who had stayed with me and we did a little you know, back and forth. And one of the things that that we did was go to a soccer match. And as a sports fan my whole life I was very ill prepared for what that meant. And you know, I know that the German League and Premier League are different that's that's big for me. But the the intensity as we were walking through, we were in in Homburg, and we were watching them play Bayern Munich. And as we are walking through, you know, the the kids said, like, just don't make eye contact if you can help it because you don't want to make eye contact with the wrong person. And that's not to say soccer fans are bad people. But I think it does speak to the intensity of the fandoms to the point where where people care so intensely about their teams, and it is such a part of who they are that you get that sort of stuff. And it was it was one of the greatest experiences that I've had and nothing like it here. I mean, I've been to Fred Sox Yankees games, and you know, I was outside of Fenway Park for a World Series game in 2004. And those are intense moments, but I don't know I still don't think I've experienced anything like, like that game in 1996.

Christian  

And there's upsides and downsides. The upside, like the best case scenario with soccer is that you have a team like Norwich, really where people have this just really like intense belief and pride in their community in overall like a healthy way. But you know what, you don't get in a lot of American sports like you don't go to a baseball game and think, oh, man, like, you know, I might encounter a lot more Nazis here than I usually do. And like you know, like white supremacy and racism like there are things in the soccer world like some pretty toxic Yeah, right supporter cultures and some like not all and it's not going to be everybody in the stadium but there's some there's some darkness there share also comes out with the intensity. It's not all

Matt Goodwin  

there's a movie. It was all Green Street hooligans, that was, it was actually I think, again, from a non soccer point of view. It brought me in sucked me, I thought it was kind of a deep dive into some of that subculture. Very interesting movie if you if you've seen that.

Christian  

Yeah, it's yeah, it's kind of a seminal movie for folks that are in that world. Yeah, for

Alexander Chase  

sure. I feel like I often say that like at sports is kind of like reality. A funhouse mirror in soccer is way more that way than baseball is because there's just so much more variety. But also, I think, in part because, like, the way that we've seen sort of like shifting sands in the soccer world, over the past decade, two decades has been so much more pronounced and in baseball, where like, things have actually settled in some very weird ways. You know, it's like, it's weird that we've been so complacent with like, you know, I imagined like Homburg, fans would be willing to set Chase Field on fire. If the team did anything with the Diamondbacks have done recently, like this sort of like, let's all just do like the profit maximizing fan less good sorts of things that like, you got to call it for what it is, like teams are willing to tank and then just not be good on the other side of tanking and then just tank again and in some really awful ways in baseball, which are just completely completely unforgivable sins that will have I would, I say that chase field would be burned down really confidently, because I don't think that anything new we're close to that is within the pale. The sort of things we've seen recently with like a European Super League getting shut down almost immediately by fans, you know, in the difference is really important. You know, it's like, a lot of clubs. Germany, like the Bundesliga has a rule which like two clubs are broken kind of loosely about like fans owning more than half a team. And, you know, throughout the rest, you know, Europe, there are a lot of teams that are owned actually by American owners that the club is part Tottenham Hotspur, the club that by the way, Ted Lasso, sort of, kind of, but doesn't but does coach and like the original sketch came about seven years ago, version 1.0. This is owned by an American Joe Lewis. And the thing is, like their supporter trusts, and I think the reason that a lot of Americans I think do gravitate to soccer, the reason I gravitated to soccer is just because there is that passion. I kind of got the IQ for college football because of concussions and because like, my fellow college classmates weren't being paid well, like super, super rich coaches, God, huge buyouts to get fired, basically, it's really, really awful in this sort of, like, as soon as you put the magnifying glass to it, it just melts. And, and that's the appeal is that you do feel like there's something so much more like a gala. terian about fandom. As we sit here in this lockout, which is brought on by ownership, not wanting to pay the players more in a lot of different ways, and you can't escape it, you know. So, you know, there's a lot to watch, both head loss and everything else. And I do hope that, you know, people give it a shot because I think I watch sports for different reasons. Like I watch baseball, because I think it's a compelling game in some ways, but I watch soccer much more from the human aspects. And it's, it's interesting to kind of see how this in crossover, like why we choose to watch we watch.

Matt Goodwin  

Yeah, Christian, you are a man of many talents. As we talked about with barbecue before you have some some training that comes up on the show and you take some perspectives. You guys talk a lot about Shakespeare, which goes over my head because I never understood it. But one of the things that you you talk about a lot is kind of this extra character that's not a character, but is intensely purposeful and that is the music that exists within the episodes. Talk to us a little bit about the role that music plays and if you can think off the top of your head of any examples. This is something that can be fairly spoiler free, pretty easy. So feel free to talk about anything that really sticks in your mind about the use of music

Christian  

In the interest of full disclosure, Brett and Marissa are music people, I decidedly like third share. They are professional musicians and have like, actual like they have degrees in music. So I bring some things to the table, but they bring most of them and I just like the one thing I brought to the table is Brett did not know that sweet Georgia Brown was the theme song for the Globetrotters. And I was very impressed with myself that I knew a music thing he didn't Yeah, but to answer your question, you have two roles that music plays or two types of music, I guess. One is the scoring sets, like the original music that is composed by Marcus Mumford and Tom Howe. And one of the cool things about that is they pay so much detail to the show so much attention to detail that there's some characters that actually have their own themes. And so as a Star Wars fan, this is something I started to notice like earlier on in life than most kids that like oh, Luke and Leia have a theme. When something is happening with them, you are going to hear some version of this sound obviously, like the Darth Vader one is the most famous and obvious and just kind of like smacks you in the face. But there are a lot of others. And so they do have themes in Tableau. So for different characters if those characters are experiencing something, and then another type of music is like what they bring in for the soundtrack. And it's pretty diverse. Like there's Jason Sudeikis is a big 90s Hip hop fans. So you get some of those references. And we've gotten some Rolling Stones, The thing about being an apple show is they have so much money, like they can pay for the rights for anything. So they have access to a lot of things other shows don't have, which gives them a lot of opportunities to make statements with the music and embed things that other shows can't.

Alexander Chase  

We're not spoiling anything about TV and I avoided talking about the other T shirts. Are we allowed to spoil Star Wars?

Matt Goodwin  

I think that's a

Christian  

thing. So yeah, I think the shelflife is

Alexander Chase  

gonna talk about leitmotif, you know, and all that good stuff. You know, it's crazy how much you can if you really want to be crazy about that, dig into what those seams and how they're written say things back here, just thought about that for a single TV show other than like Avatar The Last Airbender in my life. So right, I feel like I owe y'all some more. I've dug into a good amount of the first season because I really want to know what y'all felt about Nate, because, you know, and he's okay, can I say that he's being turned into Josie Marino? Is that allowed? Can I say that on here?

Christian  

Do you this is your show. And he shows up

Alexander Chase  

very early and you say it that way like it in the first season, they are turning him into Josie Marino very quickly. And I want to know if there is anything in his in his potential leitmotif that spoils that in the same way that the RE light motif and spark Star Wars spoils that she is a Palpatine, which it does, actually, it's just really weird. I don't know how they think of it. Yeah, I

Christian  

don't know. Like, I guess, it's always tough when you get partway through a story to know like, that stuff is easier. When you look back on it, like for me with the race stuff? You know, I was rooting for her to be a Kenobi. And I thought that people had made some pretty compelling arguments that like she could be headed that way. And I thought that would have been really cool. So, you know, the one thing I hold to with Ted Lasso is that it is it is really focused on people changing. And for most of the characters, we encountered them at like, their bottom or at least desirable, and then got to experience like the fuzzies of their warm swing, or their upswing. And so, you know, like, the story is not over yet. Right? And there could very well be, like, an upswing for him. And I don't know, maybe not, but like, even Darth Vader threw Palpatine down a shaft. So like, he could still do some things.

Alexander Chase  

I mean, I think we have to be fair to Nate, it's been it's been a come up for him. It's his, it's his hero origin story that we just may not be. It isn't seeing it that way all the time.

Christian  

The neat thing is, is interesting to me, and I try not to be too judgy about people, but two people, but I'm like, man, like, Y'all need to chill out like, you know, they, I think they did try to leave some like bread crumbs, and they tried to build some empathy for him along the way in season two, not to excuse his behavior, but to at least help you understand how he got there. And I think there are a lot of folks that maybe aren't leaving enough room for forgiveness to grow in season three and maybe like they'll get there but

Alexander Chase  

Well, we're really I'm looking for some more bottom to bottom out into personally for everyone actually, I think that's like where I have to go mask off on this is like, I am actively cheering for at least one or two people on average to bottom out harder in this third season because I just think they always need up the stakes and every season of every show. And the way that they treat that and have classes I think way more interesting. It has been for any other show I've watched. So I want to watch them write it, I want to watch that cast make it happen. And I want to watch people like you and myself and whoever else freak out about it. Because it's been fun. Fundamentally, it's so much different for me than watching just like a pure hate watch. Like I watch a lot of like Real Housewives, I watch a lot of reality TV. And I watch a lot of just like HBO, these are terrible people shows and it's so much more fun sometimes to be wrong and have to cheer they have.

Christian  

They have the same decisions to make that needed to be made and negotiated. After Empire Strikes Back. Like there are early versions of that script, where Han Solo dies and Return of the Jedi. And George Lucas chose not to go that way you chose to go a different way. And that didn't bother Harrison roar, didn't it? Bother Harrison Ford have like Irvin Kershner, like, left the project. And a lot of people like attribute his fingerprints to making Empire Strikes Back like one of the best movies ever. And people look at you know, what Return of the Jedi ended up being and saying like, that's cuz are left, you know, so there's, there are decisions to be made, like, what direction do you want to go with that? And when, when the thing is landed, if we really do, like landed after three seasons? I don't know, I guess like, what are you trying to do? Are you trying to give people like a realistic full experience? Are you trying to give people up uplift after a really difficult second season, and I don't, there's a lot on the table there that I don't share everything well, then conversations,

Matt Goodwin  

it's hard to have every single person in a situation, land on their feet and, and handle things with grace and dignity. You know, I one of the things I do like about it, and I reported beating up on poor Nate here. But the his story arc is still consistent with the show and the themes of the show. His reactions may not be what we want, and he might not be at that last moment. At the end of the second season, you know, a lot of people just kind of ah, right in their heads, but it's very consistent. And they laid out very well in season two, like the the place that all of that is coming from. And you know, the the father figure is is omnipresent in this show, in lots of ways. And I think that's very relatable and, you know, look, you, you can look around to a lot of different grown men, and you can trace a lot of good and bad back to their relationships with their dads. And so is it an excuse? Absolutely not. But it does, as you said, kind of It works by way of explanation. And there's room for compassion in there. Because, you know, when the characters on a show, it's funny, we're talking about characters, like they're real people, but we're seeing every element of them, right? The nobody's following us around the camera to show our worst moments, or our worst decisions or our meltdowns or our breakdowns or, and if they did, I think we would all come off looking much worse than than we are as people. So I think you're right, in that there's a lot of space in room and I hope that they explore that in a meaningful way. Even even if it's not, you know, a Disney ending, you know, I don't think it needs to be for it to still be meaningful.

Christian  

One of the things that we said between seasons was, you know, everything wrapped up relationship wise, pretty dang tidy after season one, that either they were going to have to introduce a diabolical character to hurt people. And it was going to be hard to see how you could do that. And after we had gotten to, like know, this core group of people and have a be convincing, or a character that we had grown to love was going to have to hurt another character that we had grown to love. Right. And that is the choice that they made and like that hurt a lot of fans and but it was convincing, like, sure people are really, people wouldn't be up in

Matt Goodwin  

arms if they weren't sucked in and attached and kind of in love with the show. Right? He wouldn't. Nobody would care. All right, I want to go to one last segment. Before we come to the end of our episode, which seems like this has flown by and that is stealing the segment you mentioned earlier from your show. And recreating here and talking little bit more about what you think are the most realistic and least realistic soccer things that have happened across the show. I know again, we're trying to be as spoiler free as possible. We did talk a little bit about, you know, owners just being willing to take huge financial losses being pretty unrealistic. But you did hint at some things that were pretty realistic. So, you know, just a few of those. And we'll give Alexander an opportunity to talk and that way, if he spoils something, it's on him and not on you.

Christian  

I was really impressed. I'm always impressed with how real and fleshed out the crowds feel. And part of that is it's amazing, there's a they've done quite a bit of CGI to fill out those crowds. And even as somebody who watches a lot of soccer as I've gone through and watch season two now, like two and three times, really trying to find the places where I can tell it's CGI, and I can't. So they did just a really wonderful, lovely job of capturing that as best they could. And I love the depth that that gives the few soccer parts of the show that we have. It's really fun for me as a soccer fan. Alexander How

Matt Goodwin  

do you feel about the the soccer pneus of the soccer show?

Alexander Chase  

So I really want to give like some more specific like Tottenham related bits here because it's really important actually to like the show's DNA is kind of like that Tottenham connection. So Brett Goldstein, who is recant his family are Tottenham fans. And they've talked a little I know he wrote an episode in Season two, where Tottenham plays an important part. And I want to say the the realism brought in by his familiale experiences are so accurate, them bottling a game and losing when it matters, it's just so authentic. And it really made me feel like it was the unrealistic part here is where he believed he makes who was the former Arsenal player that he forces just like have a line where he says Tottenham as a top team, I interior exterior on your compliment or a Tottenham? And I don't know honestly, that's right. It's the fact that I found that like, out of place that makes this shows topic worth exploring. Like, you know, it's the sort of thing where, you know, we can imagine, you know, like, I don't know, you get David Ortiz or you I don't know any other number of like Red Sox legends to go out and say like, nice things about the Yankees on the broadcast. And it's like, it happens actually a little bit more often than you'd think. Whereas like, it's like, really unexpected when some of like, the English debts were really set in their ways, or even mildly complimentary to someone on the opposition side. It's really funny, actually. So yeah, I mean, like, we take for granted so much of like, our commentary and like consumption as being like, mildly, I don't know, like, unbiased. I mean, like, obviously, most people are but they're just not very good at it. Whereas like, it's the commitment to the bid, unlike the British soccer coverage or just being like, Nope, I will never say a nice thing about Liverpool ever. And to say nice things about Tottenham. It could never happen without him being paid.

Christian  

There is something very comforting in real soccer about the voices that they like having Jeff Stelling and Arlo why, like, you know, it is really cool that they have brought in those broadcasters and as someone who watches a lot of soccer like just helps it feel very real. And it's fun that Arlo White has embraced the show to the point where he even like slipped in a tunnel so reference during the Crystal Palace Everton match this weekend, and he's kind of like, embraced it and feeds it and gives winks and nods all the time to the to the fans. And

Alexander Chase  

I think the thing that the show can rely on which is really nice is the fact that the people who are involved with broadcasting and promoting the game other than like, actual FIFA and UEFA love it and wanting to be successful. And all shade intended, like the people who broadcast the people who like promoted online are all kind of aligned in that, like, people are exciting, the sports fun to watch, it is a fantastic thing to be a fan of. Whereas there's not consistently that same thing in baseball, and it's really important thing for people who are like, in Matt nice position, who talked about it all the time to like, call out the nonsense where people are saying things that are, you know, it's like, nobody's you know, saying that Brighton or like Brentford, like capitalizing on set pieces is a bad thing. Like nobody's doing. Everyone's just like, Yeah, it's really fun that people who are winning and are winning, and that's it and I wish we could still do that. So that's actually another bit of realism that I won't say is that, you know, the positivity in the show towards the sport. itself is really refreshing so if that's the place second Tottenham till they kill me as they say not Richmond till I die Tottenham Oh boy.

Matt Goodwin  

All right Christian, that's it really does bring us to the end I just want to give you the opportunity to if there's anything that you kind of have bouncing around in your head left unsaid to go ahead and say it.

Christian  

No, I've said it all. Yeah, just I do encourage people, I encourage people to go. And if you haven't watched the show, give it a run and just see what you think. And I think it can kind of take a few episodes to get your footing. But the nice thing is with the at least in the first season, a show that, you know, caps out at between 25 and 30 minutes. You don't have to have a huge investment of time to feel as though whether or not like you're into what's going on?

Matt Goodwin  

Absolutely. Before we let you go, could you just remind people who are listening where they can find you and your pod and your your co hosts and all that?

Christian  

Yeah, we are at www.TedLassoPod.com. And then if you just search and whatever your podcast app is Richmond Til We Die, you can find us. We have a logo that looks like a soccer crest with a greyhound on it. You can find us @TedLassoPod Twitter and Instagram and I am @DashTheTweeter on Twitter as well. So there you can find some of my other projects and stuff that I write. Whatever I'm ranting about that day and your co hosts. Marissa is not online. You'll just have to tune in to the podcast to listen to her. And you can find Brett and I actually don't remember what his Twitter handle is right now. 

Matt Goodwin  

So maybe he doesn't want us to tell people that we probably should check.

Christian  

Yeah, we probably should ask. So you can find him if you want to. And he's a nice guy. So he'll say hi.

Matt Goodwin  

Yeah. All right. Well, Alexander once again, we've come to the end of an episode. We know where we can find Richmond till we die. Can you let the people know where they can find us?

Alexander Chase  

Well, they can find you on Twitter at the cork, Matt. I'm on Twitter at Chase underscore rate. And most importantly, you can find our podcast on Twitter at dugout study hall, where you can send us some questions, please be sure to subscribe to the pitcher list podcast feed if you haven't done that already. Leave us a good review if you can be so kind. And if you're not already, please consider becoming a PL plus number so that you can harass us on the PL discord. And that's it for me.

Matt Goodwin  

All right, well, thanks for listening everybody, and we'll catch you next time.

Christian

Okay, that's our show. 

And you can keep the conversation going on Twitter and Instagram. Our handle is @TedLassoPod. It's a great way for us to connect with each other and for y'all to share your insights on the show.

One more quick reminder that if you have access to an Apple device, we'd love it. If you could head over to the Apple podcasts app and give us a quick five star review. It'll help more people find the show. Thanks for listening. Until next time, cheers y'all

Transcribed by https://otter.ai